Jimmy Song on Fiat Money and God - Freedom Footprint Show 57

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,393 I want Bitcoiners mostly to read this book. 2 00:00:02,714 --> 00:00:04,824 like if non Bitcoiners read it, that's fine. 3 00:00:04,867 --> 00:00:09,322 but Mostly, I want Bitcoiners to read it because I want them to really understand 4 00:00:09,322 --> 00:00:13,310 the depths of the fiat depravity that we're experiencing in this world. 5 00:00:13,555 --> 00:00:17,286 I will say one thing, Knut, I think fiat money is an atheist money. 6 00:00:17,633 --> 00:00:21,053 That whole debate, are we really going down that part of the rabbit hole? 7 00:00:21,570 --> 00:00:24,175 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin 8 00:00:24,175 --> 00:00:28,035 philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn. 9 00:00:28,432 --> 00:00:33,202 Today, we're joined by Jimmy Song, developer, educator, and author of 10 00:00:33,212 --> 00:00:37,122 four Bitcoin books, including his newest title, Fiat Ruins Everything. 11 00:00:37,605 --> 00:00:40,915 In this episode, Jimmy walks us through his reflections on the Bitcoin 12 00:00:40,915 --> 00:00:42,625 adoption he's witnessed in his travels. 13 00:00:42,995 --> 00:00:46,305 We talk about his book, Fiat Ruins Everything, and we question the 14 00:00:46,305 --> 00:00:49,465 nature of AI, agency, and propaganda. 15 00:00:49,985 --> 00:00:55,990 But then We dive deep into religion with a debate on atheism, morality, 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,527 Christianity, and the effects of fiat money on these views. 17 00:01:00,075 --> 00:01:02,175 We hope you'll find this episode thought provoking. 18 00:01:02,755 --> 00:01:06,335 But before we jump in, a quick reminder that the best way to support the show 19 00:01:06,775 --> 00:01:10,115 is to send us a boost or stream us some sats using a value for value 20 00:01:10,115 --> 00:01:11,925 podcasting app such as Fountain. 21 00:01:12,336 --> 00:01:15,056 If you're listening to the show as a podcast, check it out on Fountain. 22 00:01:15,336 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Amber app, Wasabi wallet. 35 00:01:47,086 --> 00:01:49,976 orange pill app, the bitcoin way, and geyser. 36 00:01:50,506 --> 00:01:52,256 All their information is in the description. 37 00:01:52,306 --> 00:01:53,966 We'll be talking a bit more about them later. 38 00:01:54,467 --> 00:02:00,217 And now without further ado, here is Jimmy Song on the Freedom Footprint show. 39 00:02:00,819 --> 00:02:02,579 Jimmy, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show. 40 00:02:02,609 --> 00:02:03,379 Thanks for joining us. 41 00:02:04,229 --> 00:02:05,389 Well, thanks for having me. 42 00:02:05,389 --> 00:02:06,919 I'm glad to be on the show. 43 00:02:07,825 --> 00:02:09,045 lovely to have you here, Jimmy. 44 00:02:09,045 --> 00:02:10,145 It's been a while. 45 00:02:10,145 --> 00:02:12,645 Uh, we saw you in Riga last, I believe. 46 00:02:12,725 --> 00:02:16,585 Uh, and from what I know, after that, you've been sort of traveling the 47 00:02:16,585 --> 00:02:21,735 world with your family, your great big family, and uh, seeing how fiat 48 00:02:21,735 --> 00:02:23,395 ruins everything everywhere, right? 49 00:02:23,867 --> 00:02:28,967 pretty much, yeah, uh, and uh, yeah, I guess it's, it's been over a year 50 00:02:28,967 --> 00:02:33,707 since I've seen you, but yeah, that, um, last year's Baltic Honey Badger 51 00:02:33,707 --> 00:02:36,567 was, uh, was when we started the trip. 52 00:02:36,967 --> 00:02:42,004 Uh, we finished the trip in June and, uh, and another Baltic Honey Badger 53 00:02:42,014 --> 00:02:46,264 has happened since then, so yeah, it's, it's kind of crazy how time flies. 54 00:02:46,795 --> 00:02:47,055 Yeah. 55 00:02:47,055 --> 00:02:49,105 So what, what countries have you visited? 56 00:02:49,465 --> 00:02:51,485 Is there a list, like, is that list too long? 57 00:02:51,485 --> 00:02:52,530 Is there 58 00:02:52,709 --> 00:02:58,099 There's, uh, we, we visited 200, I mean, we were traveling for 277 days 59 00:02:58,099 --> 00:03:03,089 and we visited 34 countries, so I can name them all for you, it's, it's not 60 00:03:03,179 --> 00:03:10,099 too bad, it's, uh, Latvia, Austria, uh, Italy, Vatican, Switzerland. 61 00:03:11,609 --> 00:03:21,989 Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Spain, Morocco, Palestine, 62 00:03:22,009 --> 00:03:30,874 Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, UAE, India, 63 00:03:31,444 --> 00:03:42,044 um, Singapore, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Taiwan, 64 00:03:42,824 --> 00:03:46,944 um, Korea, Japan, Fiji, New Zealand. 65 00:03:47,269 --> 00:03:49,309 Yeah, so I, I think I named all of them. 66 00:03:49,957 --> 00:03:58,327 Wow, what a list, and like, the obvious question is, to which the answer 67 00:03:58,327 --> 00:04:02,907 is probably the title of your book, but what is your main takeaway from 68 00:04:02,907 --> 00:04:04,697 like, visiting all these countries? 69 00:04:04,697 --> 00:04:06,777 What have, what is the conclusion? 70 00:04:07,482 --> 00:04:10,712 Well, I mean, the, the main reason for the trip is because I like 71 00:04:10,732 --> 00:04:14,432 traveling and I've always wanted to travel with my family and so on. 72 00:04:14,462 --> 00:04:19,202 Uh, the, the main takeaway would be that it's, it's good to spend lots of time with 73 00:04:19,202 --> 00:04:22,082 family and go do adventures like this. 74 00:04:22,552 --> 00:04:25,742 Unfortunately, fiat money makes that very difficult because 75 00:04:25,742 --> 00:04:29,432 everyone is up to their eyeballs in debt and debt service becomes... 76 00:04:30,107 --> 00:04:34,367 Sort of the restricting thing for most people, you have a mortgage or a car 77 00:04:34,367 --> 00:04:38,907 loan or a student loan or you have a job that you need to be at to pay off 78 00:04:38,927 --> 00:04:41,187 all of that stuff so you can't leave. 79 00:04:41,617 --> 00:04:45,287 Um, and that, that's the real tragedy for me, is that more 80 00:04:45,307 --> 00:04:48,682 people don't get to do this because they're trapped by fiat money. 81 00:04:49,456 --> 00:04:54,276 We're all in a ha, or, we're not, but all the fiat people are in a hamster's 82 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:59,346 wheel, uh, and that's like, for me, that's a lot of what Bitcoin is all 83 00:04:59,346 --> 00:05:06,256 about, it's about escaping that hamster's wheel, um, and, so, to Bitcoin adoption 84 00:05:06,256 --> 00:05:10,316 in the different countries, like, what, um, Where are the communities? 85 00:05:10,316 --> 00:05:12,596 Like where, where, where are we in the world? 86 00:05:12,596 --> 00:05:18,896 Like, uh, was there places that surprised you that adoption was, you know, more 87 00:05:18,901 --> 00:05:21,506 widespread in certain places than others? 88 00:05:21,991 --> 00:05:26,551 Yeah, I mean, it's a little hard to answer that question because I went 89 00:05:26,601 --> 00:05:30,101 to a lot of these countries and met with Bitcoiners, so of course they're 90 00:05:30,211 --> 00:05:32,651 already adopting Bitcoin or whatever. 91 00:05:32,661 --> 00:05:38,951 It's a little harder to tell with the normie person, but from what 92 00:05:38,951 --> 00:05:44,181 I hear, the places where you do have inflation problems, they 93 00:05:44,181 --> 00:05:45,651 tend to be the places where... 94 00:05:45,856 --> 00:05:47,536 people are the most interested. 95 00:05:47,546 --> 00:05:53,196 So Lebanon and Argentina are probably the two most 96 00:05:53,196 --> 00:05:55,156 hyperinflating places that I was at. 97 00:05:55,176 --> 00:06:00,086 Um, but you know, Egypt and Turkey are sort of in that process as well. 98 00:06:00,086 --> 00:06:02,586 And they, they seem to have a lot of people that were interested. 99 00:06:03,066 --> 00:06:07,996 Um, and adoption is a, is a little bit of a tricky term because, uh, the 100 00:06:07,996 --> 00:06:13,611 way most people use it is, you know, like Um, are people transacting in it? 101 00:06:13,621 --> 00:06:15,731 What can you buy with Bitcoin or something like that? 102 00:06:16,101 --> 00:06:19,441 Really, adoption is more people storing their value in it. 103 00:06:19,441 --> 00:06:23,211 And, um, and certainly there's a decent number of those people, 104 00:06:23,211 --> 00:06:24,721 especially in the Bitcoin community. 105 00:06:25,081 --> 00:06:27,741 Uh, what I will say though is that there, there are Bitcoin 106 00:06:27,741 --> 00:06:29,181 communities almost everywhere. 107 00:06:29,201 --> 00:06:31,716 Um, like, I was in Tbilisi, Georgia. 108 00:06:31,716 --> 00:06:36,706 I did not expect there to be that many, uh, Bitcoiners, uh, but there 109 00:06:36,706 --> 00:06:41,846 were, and in fact, that's like one of the big, uh, hotbeds of Bitcoin 110 00:06:41,846 --> 00:06:46,616 activity, largely because there's a lot of people coming out of Russia. 111 00:06:46,646 --> 00:06:51,361 This is one of the places that they've been going, uh, They're escaping Russia, 112 00:06:51,781 --> 00:06:56,641 and if they need to send money back and forth, the normal international 113 00:06:56,641 --> 00:07:01,801 rails for money transfer are not available, so they're using Bitcoin. 114 00:07:01,991 --> 00:07:06,591 Um, so, you know, you see like random stores with the Bitcoin sign 115 00:07:06,591 --> 00:07:11,021 and stuff, so you can go in like, uh, you know, send, send, uh, you 116 00:07:11,021 --> 00:07:15,181 know, Bitcoin back to relatives back home, I guess, if you're Russian. 117 00:07:15,651 --> 00:07:20,781 Um, And there's a lot of that, uh, all over the world, and it's not 118 00:07:20,781 --> 00:07:24,991 something that you would think of, but, um, you know, there's just 119 00:07:25,051 --> 00:07:27,131 kind of activity all over the place. 120 00:07:27,988 --> 00:07:31,178 and, and what, I mean, you've, you've been traveling a lot before 121 00:07:31,183 --> 00:07:33,788 as well, like for years now. 122 00:07:33,788 --> 00:07:38,698 Maybe not with your entire family, but, but, uh, what's the difference 123 00:07:38,698 --> 00:07:45,718 now in 2023 to say like five years back in terms of like, uh, Do people 124 00:07:45,718 --> 00:07:50,448 make the distinction between Bitcoin and crypto to a larger extent now or? 125 00:07:51,435 --> 00:07:52,815 Yeah, I would say that's the case. 126 00:07:53,285 --> 00:07:57,745 There's certainly a lot of, um, a lot more separation. 127 00:07:57,755 --> 00:08:01,475 Um, and, you know, the main thing that I've noticed is that pretty 128 00:08:01,475 --> 00:08:04,245 much every city that you go to... 129 00:08:04,685 --> 00:08:09,095 You know, they, they used to have a single meetup and then there were a bunch of shit 130 00:08:09,695 --> 00:08:14,675 Bitcoiners, and they went off and split to do their own meetup, or they kept that 131 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,515 meetup and the Bitcoiners actually created their own meetup or something like that. 132 00:08:18,995 --> 00:08:21,245 But there, there's usually a distinct set. 133 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:24,635 There's some Bitcoiners and then there's crypto people. 134 00:08:24,695 --> 00:08:29,765 Um, the crypto people are almost always thinking about like 135 00:08:29,765 --> 00:08:31,565 the next I c O or something. 136 00:08:32,385 --> 00:08:36,815 You know, hey, here's a new DeFi product or here's a cool monkey JPEG or something. 137 00:08:37,205 --> 00:08:42,395 They're not thinking at all about sound money or, you know, uh, the, 138 00:08:42,405 --> 00:08:47,275 the life change that comes from having a good store of value there. 139 00:08:47,285 --> 00:08:51,135 They're thinking about, you know, how to get rich really quickly and, you know, 140 00:08:51,175 --> 00:08:54,365 um, CZ coming to town and stuff like that. 141 00:08:54,375 --> 00:08:56,615 It's, it's very shallow. 142 00:08:56,615 --> 00:08:57,335 It's very... 143 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:03,360 Uh, much based on, um, sort of almost like celebrity news or something like that. 144 00:09:03,410 --> 00:09:05,680 Uh, the, the Bitcoiners, they get it. 145 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:10,210 Um, and there's a lot more of those communities than say five years ago. 146 00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:14,960 Uh, and it's, uh, it's very encouraging to me, uh, especially in places like Asia 147 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:17,190 where, uh, you know, you, you had this. 148 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:23,440 This giant bubble of uh, and all sorts of scams that were happening 149 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,600 over there and it got like seriously overheated on that front. 150 00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:33,360 Um, but you know, there's like sort of a phoenix rising from the ashes kind of 151 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:39,300 thing where there's a core of Bitcoiners that are holding on and, uh, you know, 152 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:44,110 they're, they're showing sort of the, the big difference between the two. 153 00:09:44,450 --> 00:09:48,180 So there, there is some, some daylight between those things. 154 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:55,140 Um, and, you know, thankfully there, that, that seems to be sort of the 155 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,730 evolution of this space is that you get people, uh, you know, you, you get a lot 156 00:10:00,730 --> 00:10:04,630 of people interested and it's sort of amorphous, but then there's sort of a. 157 00:10:04,965 --> 00:10:09,475 Separating of the Bitcoiners from crypto and that's a good thing. 158 00:10:10,252 --> 00:10:11,572 Yeah, who said that? 159 00:10:11,602 --> 00:10:13,102 Crypto is peak fiat. 160 00:10:14,062 --> 00:10:14,742 I like that. 161 00:10:16,602 --> 00:10:18,992 So when did you decide to write the book? 162 00:10:19,712 --> 00:10:22,822 Um, I started writing the book, uh, last year. 163 00:10:22,832 --> 00:10:27,932 Um, uh, I guess after taking, uh, David Perel's Rite of Passage 164 00:10:27,952 --> 00:10:33,142 course and I felt like I could write anything in, at any length. 165 00:10:33,142 --> 00:10:36,542 And I, I started writing columns for Bitcoin Magazine based on that. 166 00:10:36,592 --> 00:10:40,652 And, uh, I took some of those articles and put it into this book. 167 00:10:40,682 --> 00:10:43,482 Um, but yeah, a lot, large part of it was. 168 00:10:43,992 --> 00:10:49,102 written during the trip, um, written with a lot of conversations from, with 169 00:10:49,102 --> 00:10:53,752 Bitcoiners, you know, just talking about, you know, like how things are in different 170 00:10:53,752 --> 00:10:55,412 parts of the world and stuff like that. 171 00:10:55,802 --> 00:11:00,912 Uh, and yeah, it was, uh, it was really just sort of like, uh, 172 00:11:00,932 --> 00:11:02,962 something I was doing during the trip. 173 00:11:02,992 --> 00:11:10,782 Um, and I, I wanted to publish this book, anyway, and it turned out that Uh, 174 00:11:10,852 --> 00:11:16,272 talking to Bitcoiners all over the world was a great way to, like, distill and 175 00:11:16,272 --> 00:11:18,262 sharpen a lot of the thoughts that I had. 176 00:11:18,792 --> 00:11:21,212 Uh, but yeah, it's a fairly long book. 177 00:11:21,242 --> 00:11:25,082 It's, I think, the longest of the books that I've written, uh, you know, and 178 00:11:25,092 --> 00:11:26,712 that includes programming Bitcoin. 179 00:11:26,752 --> 00:11:32,952 So, uh, 340 pages, 90, 000 words, um, 6 parts, 30 something chapters. 180 00:11:32,962 --> 00:11:38,442 So, yeah, it's a fairly, Deep work and it's, uh, it's, yeah, 181 00:11:38,442 --> 00:11:39,742 it's, it's been fun writing it. 182 00:11:40,832 --> 00:11:43,832 I bet it's more accessible than programming Bitcoin, 183 00:11:43,842 --> 00:11:45,042 though, to most people. 184 00:11:46,672 --> 00:11:47,702 Certainly hope so. 185 00:11:47,702 --> 00:11:52,382 And that, that was, uh, that was sort of the goal with a lot of these books 186 00:11:52,382 --> 00:11:55,472 was to bring, uh, other people in. 187 00:11:55,502 --> 00:12:01,252 So part of that is making it short so that people can get into it really easily. 188 00:12:01,252 --> 00:12:04,042 So a little Bitcoin book, Thank God for Bitcoin, you know, 189 00:12:04,082 --> 00:12:05,232 Bitcoin and the American Dream. 190 00:12:05,232 --> 00:12:06,442 They're, they're all meant to be. 191 00:12:06,692 --> 00:12:11,692 Very quick read so that you can, you can get into it and get an idea and you 192 00:12:11,692 --> 00:12:16,562 know, just break down whatever barriers you might have, uh, or in getting 193 00:12:16,562 --> 00:12:18,202 intimidated or something like that. 194 00:12:18,602 --> 00:12:22,532 Uh, this one though is different in that it's, uh, it's aimed at Bitcoiners. 195 00:12:22,632 --> 00:12:25,752 So I, I want Bitcoiners mostly to read this book. 196 00:12:25,772 --> 00:12:28,672 Um, like if non Bitcoiners read it, that's fine. 197 00:12:28,722 --> 00:12:32,377 Uh, but Mostly, I want Bitcoiners to read it because I want them 198 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:36,117 to really understand the depths of the fiat depravity that we're, 199 00:12:36,147 --> 00:12:37,987 we're experiencing in this world. 200 00:12:38,057 --> 00:12:43,957 So, um, you know, I, I write a lot about, um, the individual incentives, the 201 00:12:43,957 --> 00:12:48,407 company incentives, national incentives, the global dollar hegemony that we're 202 00:12:48,427 --> 00:12:53,387 under, um, the morality of fiat money and how it's really, truly evil. 203 00:12:54,072 --> 00:12:58,522 Finally, how, you know, we're, we're beset on two sides because all coiners 204 00:12:58,582 --> 00:13:03,762 are taking Bitcoin's good name and using it to pump their bags, uh, while 205 00:13:04,142 --> 00:13:09,272 You know, fiat people are trying to produce CBDCs and get sort of like a 206 00:13:09,272 --> 00:13:12,462 surveillance state of full control. 207 00:13:12,532 --> 00:13:17,042 So yeah, I mean, that's, that's basically how the book's organized. 208 00:13:17,042 --> 00:13:23,512 And hopefully it's something that a lot of Bitcoiners can use to really be 209 00:13:23,522 --> 00:13:25,732 convicted in their holding, I guess. 210 00:13:27,522 --> 00:13:29,702 Yeah, and what's your writing process like? 211 00:13:29,702 --> 00:13:31,872 I mean, what is writing to you? 212 00:13:31,872 --> 00:13:33,072 Is it therapeutic? 213 00:13:33,102 --> 00:13:37,622 Like, I know you have around 700 kids, and I guess writing is a 214 00:13:37,622 --> 00:13:41,352 way to zone out and get away from those responsibilities for a while. 215 00:13:41,362 --> 00:13:45,892 Like, when during the day do you find time for writing? 216 00:13:46,917 --> 00:13:51,597 Yeah, you know, it's, um, it used to be a lot harder than it is now, and I, I 217 00:13:51,597 --> 00:13:56,277 really do credit David Perel for helping me, like, uh, sort of unlock a lot of 218 00:13:56,277 --> 00:14:01,387 that, uh, because, you know, I, I took his course, uh, like, I think it was 219 00:14:01,407 --> 00:14:03,447 April of last year and, you know, it 220 00:14:03,482 --> 00:14:04,562 Write a passage. 221 00:14:04,792 --> 00:14:05,092 What's that? 222 00:14:05,252 --> 00:14:06,522 Yeah, rite of passage. 223 00:14:06,582 --> 00:14:09,162 W R I T E of passage. 224 00:14:09,162 --> 00:14:10,722 So it's a, it's a pun. 225 00:14:11,332 --> 00:14:16,442 Uh, anyway, he has a cohort starting if you're, if you're interested and you're in 226 00:14:16,442 --> 00:14:19,262 writing and want to write things easier. 227 00:14:19,262 --> 00:14:22,112 He has some really, really great material. 228 00:14:22,122 --> 00:14:26,432 So I took that course and I made it like super hard on myself. 229 00:14:26,432 --> 00:14:28,602 So it's like a five or six week course. 230 00:14:29,772 --> 00:14:32,962 And you're supposed to produce maybe like four articles, right? 231 00:14:33,022 --> 00:14:37,082 Um, like produce four pieces in those like five or six weeks. 232 00:14:37,522 --> 00:14:39,752 I decided to produce an article every day. 233 00:14:40,162 --> 00:14:42,862 So I like made it that much harder. 234 00:14:42,862 --> 00:14:45,692 I was like, this, this course costs a lot of money. 235 00:14:45,692 --> 00:14:50,372 I'm going to get, I'm going to squeeze every last drop of value from it. 236 00:14:50,902 --> 00:14:56,072 And I did that and it was a wonderful experience because I learned to just... 237 00:14:56,892 --> 00:15:01,652 Sort of, uh, organize my ideas and, you know, part of his, um, part of the 238 00:15:01,652 --> 00:15:06,882 thing that I learned is that, uh, you know, you don't write from a blank page 239 00:15:06,912 --> 00:15:10,852 and too many writers get into that mode where they just like face a blank page, 240 00:15:10,912 --> 00:15:13,892 they go to the blank page and go, all right, what am I going to write about? 241 00:15:13,912 --> 00:15:18,262 And then they try to come up with ideas and it's, it, and you 242 00:15:18,262 --> 00:15:22,262 get into like writer's block and all, all sorts of other things. 243 00:15:22,262 --> 00:15:23,132 And, uh, and. 244 00:15:23,557 --> 00:15:28,037 David's whole thing is you should be collecting ideas all the time, and 245 00:15:28,047 --> 00:15:31,757 everything that you read, you should be taking notes, you should be, um, 246 00:15:31,837 --> 00:15:36,547 you know, adding sort of like ideas that you have to yourself and, uh, and 247 00:15:36,587 --> 00:15:41,887 collecting them somewhere, and when you have a lot of these things, uh, and 248 00:15:41,947 --> 00:15:45,527 they're somewhat organized, then you don't have to start from a blank page. 249 00:15:45,527 --> 00:15:50,407 You take your ideas and you try to express them in a coherent manner. 250 00:15:51,012 --> 00:15:54,832 And, uh, and you take that and then now you have some raw material 251 00:15:54,832 --> 00:15:56,352 and it's a lot easier to write. 252 00:15:56,812 --> 00:16:03,902 Um, I also learned to sort of like, uh, unblock myself almost, uh, 253 00:16:04,372 --> 00:16:10,252 and you, uh, and sort of just get the ideas out or explanations out. 254 00:16:10,292 --> 00:16:15,352 And, uh, you know, one of the methods in which you can do that is get, 255 00:16:15,412 --> 00:16:17,442 uh, you know, something like otter. 256 00:16:17,512 --> 00:16:18,402 ai for your phone. 257 00:16:19,667 --> 00:16:23,107 And just explain what you're going to write about as if to a friend, right? 258 00:16:23,157 --> 00:16:26,737 Um, just, okay, what, what, what are you writing an essay about? 259 00:16:26,737 --> 00:16:29,787 Why am I writing about this and blah, blah, blah, and just explain it. 260 00:16:30,197 --> 00:16:35,507 In plain words, as if you're talking to a friend, you could take that and use 261 00:16:35,507 --> 00:16:37,657 that as your first draft and refine it. 262 00:16:38,087 --> 00:16:41,327 And that actually works pretty well, amazingly enough. 263 00:16:41,717 --> 00:16:45,997 Um, there, there are lots of other stuff that he teaches, uh, and, you 264 00:16:45,997 --> 00:16:52,137 know, I, I practiced a lot of them and I was able to essentially make essays 265 00:16:52,207 --> 00:16:54,997 much more quickly than I, I was before. 266 00:16:55,612 --> 00:17:00,072 Uh, and essentially this book is a collection of essays and, you know, 267 00:17:00,072 --> 00:17:05,622 I, I can knock out 500 to a thousand words without a problem, uh, just, you 268 00:17:05,622 --> 00:17:10,362 know, like coming up with, like having some ideas already about what I want 269 00:17:10,362 --> 00:17:14,682 to write about and then refining it in a first draft and then going through 270 00:17:14,712 --> 00:17:18,102 second, third draft and, and then, you know, you're pretty much done at that. 271 00:17:18,112 --> 00:17:18,122 Oh 272 00:17:20,262 --> 00:17:20,722 Cool. 273 00:17:20,772 --> 00:17:25,252 Um, yeah, it reminds me of, of, uh, my writing process for the first book, where 274 00:17:25,292 --> 00:17:27,222 I promised myself to write a page a day. 275 00:17:27,222 --> 00:17:30,112 That's way less than 5, 000 words, though. 276 00:17:30,522 --> 00:17:32,092 Uh, it's probably more like a... 277 00:17:32,842 --> 00:17:34,322 A page a day is maybe like... 278 00:17:35,537 --> 00:17:35,847 250 or 279 00:17:36,062 --> 00:17:36,642 Yeah, yeah. 280 00:17:36,642 --> 00:17:40,672 So it's, uh, it's not very much, but it's still, that was like the 281 00:17:40,672 --> 00:17:42,342 first attempt, and that really... 282 00:17:42,652 --> 00:17:47,662 Having some sort of disciplined routine helps for sure and uh yeah and to the 283 00:17:47,662 --> 00:17:51,742 other like I started every chapter by asking myself a question and then 284 00:17:51,782 --> 00:17:55,712 um you know the rest of the chapter was answering that question which I 285 00:17:56,372 --> 00:18:00,632 take it is sort of what you did when explaining what you were going to write 286 00:18:00,877 --> 00:18:01,777 Yeah. 287 00:18:01,777 --> 00:18:02,057 Yeah. 288 00:18:02,057 --> 00:18:05,487 I mean, that, that, that's a, that's a writing prompt method. 289 00:18:05,487 --> 00:18:07,317 And that, that can be very helpful. 290 00:18:07,317 --> 00:18:11,512 And like, just sort of like, Uh, there's usually a step I would take 291 00:18:11,512 --> 00:18:15,252 in between if I were to do it that way of just sort of getting the main 292 00:18:15,252 --> 00:18:19,862 ideas out on a piece of paper, uh, the brainstorming stage where you just sort 293 00:18:19,862 --> 00:18:24,572 of, uh, write a bunch of, um, ideas on what you want to write about or how 294 00:18:24,572 --> 00:18:26,082 you're going to answer the question. 295 00:18:26,532 --> 00:18:30,402 Um, the other thing, uh, that you mentioned about having 296 00:18:30,432 --> 00:18:31,752 some sort of discipline. 297 00:18:32,097 --> 00:18:37,317 Um, I, I was fortunate enough to have Parker as a good friend and he, he 298 00:18:37,317 --> 00:18:38,857 was writing a book at the same time. 299 00:18:38,857 --> 00:18:41,347 So we just like checked in on each other. 300 00:18:41,347 --> 00:18:44,597 We kept each other accountable by, uh, you know, doing a call 301 00:18:44,597 --> 00:18:47,477 every week and just saying, okay, what did you work on last week? 302 00:18:47,477 --> 00:18:48,757 What are you going to work on this week? 303 00:18:48,757 --> 00:18:49,117 And then. 304 00:18:49,642 --> 00:18:52,302 Talk about it and, you know, what, what were your blockers? 305 00:18:52,302 --> 00:18:56,182 How can we, um, you know, help each other get past these blocks or whatever? 306 00:18:56,652 --> 00:19:01,712 Um, and, you know, like, uh, uh, give resources to each other to figure out 307 00:19:01,712 --> 00:19:04,482 what, uh, what could work and so on. 308 00:19:04,482 --> 00:19:07,302 So, uh, so that, that was really useful too. 309 00:19:07,302 --> 00:19:12,052 And, uh, for any aspiring writer out there, like go, go get yourself into like 310 00:19:12,052 --> 00:19:13,582 a writer's group or something, right? 311 00:19:13,582 --> 00:19:16,992 Like having other writers around. 312 00:19:17,287 --> 00:19:21,367 Even if they're not reading your stuff, just to be able to say, Hey, 313 00:19:21,367 --> 00:19:25,557 I did what I, uh, what I said I was going to do makes all the difference. 314 00:19:25,687 --> 00:19:25,887 Right? 315 00:19:25,937 --> 00:19:30,487 Uh, like having somebody there to tell you, Hey, like. 316 00:19:31,112 --> 00:19:36,252 Okay, like, we're going to meet about this is sometimes enough of a deadline 317 00:19:36,252 --> 00:19:40,662 where you're going to work feverishly the night before to actually have 318 00:19:40,662 --> 00:19:45,102 something to say at the, at the writer's group that you're going to meet at. 319 00:19:45,442 --> 00:19:50,872 Otherwise, like, it's just way too easy to be lazy and just, you know, ignore things 320 00:19:50,872 --> 00:19:57,392 for, you know, weeks, months, years, uh, sometimes and that, that's, uh, um, 321 00:19:57,422 --> 00:20:01,082 that's something that you have to really check yourself on if you're a writer. 322 00:20:01,092 --> 00:20:01,112 Yeah. 323 00:20:01,859 --> 00:20:03,729 Yeah, there are no shortcuts. 324 00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,259 Well, maybe there are shortcuts, like AI. 325 00:20:08,289 --> 00:20:10,969 How much AI did you use, and how did you use it? 326 00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:16,219 Yeah, so I, I use some chat GPT and, uh, the, the night, the 327 00:20:16,219 --> 00:20:20,409 really nice thing about AI is that, uh, it's almost instantaneous. 328 00:20:20,429 --> 00:20:24,949 So if you've ever used an editor, um, you know, you, you send your 329 00:20:24,949 --> 00:20:28,559 stuff to them and they don't respond for like two weeks and you're just, 330 00:20:29,109 --> 00:20:32,329 you know, you had all this momentum writing and editing on all that stuff. 331 00:20:32,329 --> 00:20:35,229 And then suddenly, like, you just, you have nothing to do for 332 00:20:35,229 --> 00:20:38,989 two weeks because if you change anything, then the editor is like. 333 00:20:39,509 --> 00:20:42,129 You're, you're basically forking your own book. 334 00:20:42,139 --> 00:20:48,099 Um, but, uh, but if you're, if, if, you know, and during those two weeks, 335 00:20:48,099 --> 00:20:51,119 you might lose a lot of momentum, get distracted, do other stuff. 336 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,679 So it's like hard to get back into it when the editor finally gets it to you. 337 00:20:55,089 --> 00:21:00,219 Um, so a large part of what I used ChatGPT for was as an editor. 338 00:21:00,219 --> 00:21:02,319 So you can, you can give it a good prompt. 339 00:21:02,349 --> 00:21:06,029 Uh, what, like, you're going to be my book editor. 340 00:21:06,384 --> 00:21:11,214 And you're going to correct all grammar, um, you know, try to make 341 00:21:11,224 --> 00:21:15,694 things that sound confusing sound more clear, um, and stuff like that. 342 00:21:16,064 --> 00:21:20,544 And, you know, you can tell it, okay, edit it really, really lightly 343 00:21:20,564 --> 00:21:22,444 or edit it completely, right? 344 00:21:22,484 --> 00:21:26,644 And you can, you can sort of tweak that based on the prompt that you give it. 345 00:21:27,034 --> 00:21:32,234 Um, I generally went very light, um, you know, just correct few things and, you 346 00:21:32,234 --> 00:21:35,524 know, if there's any grammar errors or something like that, please correct that. 347 00:21:35,524 --> 00:21:35,794 But. 348 00:21:36,259 --> 00:21:40,589 Like, don't change the ideas too much or anything or, um, you know, 349 00:21:40,719 --> 00:21:42,889 just make things sound clear. 350 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,969 Um, and that, that was really useful because you get 351 00:21:45,989 --> 00:21:47,809 instantaneous feedback, pretty much. 352 00:21:47,819 --> 00:21:52,929 So you can, you, you can take a paragraph and just be like, okay, like, um, edit 353 00:21:52,929 --> 00:21:54,679 it and let's, let's read it again. 354 00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:55,509 And... 355 00:21:55,884 --> 00:22:00,114 It works as sort of like a second draft, and then you're 356 00:22:00,294 --> 00:22:01,634 going to have to edit it again. 357 00:22:01,644 --> 00:22:05,744 Whatever the AI does, it's going to mess up in some way, so you're 358 00:22:05,744 --> 00:22:07,024 going to need to edit it again. 359 00:22:07,474 --> 00:22:12,544 But it's great feedback, and it doesn't stop your momentum. 360 00:22:12,564 --> 00:22:16,134 It keeps you going, and you can do it as many times as you 361 00:22:16,134 --> 00:22:18,244 want, which is really nice. 362 00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:23,969 Um, uh, you know, if you, if you don't like how something is like coming and then 363 00:22:23,969 --> 00:22:29,639 you can, you can start over and try again and you don't, you don't have to, um, 364 00:22:30,379 --> 00:22:32,759 uh, you don't have to kind of get stuck. 365 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,329 Uh, and more importantly, like you can ask the AI, like, okay, why, 366 00:22:37,339 --> 00:22:38,889 why did you make these changes? 367 00:22:38,889 --> 00:22:41,809 Like, tell me specifically what was the rationale. 368 00:22:42,234 --> 00:22:46,954 And you can, you can sort of understand what, what the motivations are based 369 00:22:46,954 --> 00:22:50,874 on the prompts that you're giving it and, uh, and you can tweak those too. 370 00:22:50,874 --> 00:22:54,024 So, uh, it was, it was a very useful tool. 371 00:22:54,044 --> 00:22:57,484 I, I think personally think that's probably why we're getting 372 00:22:57,484 --> 00:23:00,334 like an explosion of books right now in the Bitcoin space. 373 00:23:00,374 --> 00:23:02,224 Um, I think, uh, you know. 374 00:23:02,654 --> 00:23:08,564 I published and then like Lynn Alden had a book, uh, come out and Parker obviously 375 00:23:08,564 --> 00:23:13,564 has one, Mark Goodwin has one, and there's another guy from Bitcoin Magazine that 376 00:23:13,564 --> 00:23:18,434 has another one, and I mean, there's like five or six books that came out like at 377 00:23:18,434 --> 00:23:21,954 the same time, so a lot of people are complaining about the amount of books 378 00:23:21,974 --> 00:23:26,594 that they're going to need to read, but I mean, this is, it makes the writing, the 379 00:23:26,594 --> 00:23:28,614 writing process has gotten more efficient. 380 00:23:28,624 --> 00:23:31,319 You're, you're going to see more of it, and that's, That's 381 00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:32,579 kind of where we are right now. 382 00:23:33,134 --> 00:23:39,999 Yeah, that's definitely been an explosion, and like, I'm happy that we got into 383 00:23:39,999 --> 00:23:44,499 the door early on by writing books before this whole thing started, like, 384 00:23:45,116 --> 00:23:47,126 Okay, we have some big news. 385 00:23:47,496 --> 00:23:49,736 We have a new lead sponsor, AmberApp. 386 00:23:50,576 --> 00:23:53,176 They're the number one exchange in the Southern Hemisphere. 387 00:23:53,486 --> 00:23:56,386 They're rated for the 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a sense of felt uneasiness, right? 423 00:25:47,304 --> 00:25:48,804 To use a Mississian term. 424 00:25:49,094 --> 00:25:55,609 Uh, For, for, uh, for a, um, an entity to engage in actual action, 425 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:57,729 to, to make a decision on their own. 426 00:25:58,209 --> 00:26:00,709 Um, so what's your take there? 427 00:26:00,709 --> 00:26:04,709 I'm curious about what, what you think about AI and, and if it can 428 00:26:04,709 --> 00:26:08,909 ever be truly autonomous, can it ever be anything than a perfect slave? 429 00:26:08,989 --> 00:26:10,909 Can it be its own master at some point? 430 00:26:11,819 --> 00:26:14,349 Yeah, I think you put it pretty well. 431 00:26:14,679 --> 00:26:16,389 It doesn't have a will of its own. 432 00:26:16,389 --> 00:26:21,559 And this is the part that almost every AI doomer seems to be missing, is that 433 00:26:21,779 --> 00:26:25,499 it doesn't have a will, it just does. 434 00:26:26,634 --> 00:26:31,554 And then, like, this is the difference between, like, something that is living 435 00:26:31,554 --> 00:26:35,704 and something that is dead, is that it has a will of its own, it has motivations, it 436 00:26:35,714 --> 00:26:41,834 has, it wants to do something, it wants to achieve a goal, and AI does not, it 437 00:26:41,864 --> 00:26:47,404 only has a goal as far as you define it for it, and you say, okay, I want you 438 00:26:47,404 --> 00:26:49,534 to do this, And then you can do this. 439 00:26:49,944 --> 00:26:56,164 Um, but, uh, but this points out something to me that, uh, that I 440 00:26:56,164 --> 00:27:00,734 think a lot of people miss with respect to genuine innovation, 441 00:27:01,114 --> 00:27:05,894 which is that, uh, you know, hyped innovation like fiat innovation, right? 442 00:27:05,914 --> 00:27:06,604 Fake science. 443 00:27:06,604 --> 00:27:10,804 And there, there's a whole chapter in my book about fiat science and how 444 00:27:11,674 --> 00:27:13,844 more or less socialist it is right now. 445 00:27:14,164 --> 00:27:14,564 Um. 446 00:27:15,104 --> 00:27:19,064 But, uh, you know, there's a lot of hype, for example, about, 447 00:27:19,064 --> 00:27:23,114 like, quantum computing or cold fusion or stuff like that. 448 00:27:23,524 --> 00:27:28,584 And you can, you can always tell that these things are not for real and that 449 00:27:28,584 --> 00:27:34,264 there's nothing really coming around the corner because the, the, you 450 00:27:34,264 --> 00:27:36,344 know, it's always sort of hyped up. 451 00:27:36,364 --> 00:27:40,264 It's, no one's really, like, necessarily scared of it. 452 00:27:40,264 --> 00:27:43,814 I mean, they, they might say, oh, it can break this and break that or whatever. 453 00:27:44,234 --> 00:27:49,834 But generally, it's, uh, it's just people sort of asserting that this 454 00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:54,634 might or might not happen, or, uh, you know, it's just around the corner, it's 455 00:27:54,684 --> 00:27:56,424 20 years away, something like that. 456 00:27:56,864 --> 00:28:01,844 Whereas, uh, with, with AI, there's a lot of fear around it, right? 457 00:28:01,844 --> 00:28:06,254 There's a lot of people saying, oh, the, there, Skynet, and these, uh, 458 00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:10,209 You know, uh, things are going to take over or something like that. 459 00:28:11,019 --> 00:28:14,919 Almost all innovation, if you look back, has that element. 460 00:28:14,939 --> 00:28:20,029 So, for example, when cell phones first came out, you know, everyone 461 00:28:20,029 --> 00:28:23,229 was saying, hey, you're going to get cancer in your brain because, you know, 462 00:28:23,239 --> 00:28:27,299 it's too close and you got all these electromagnetic waves and stuff like that. 463 00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:30,539 Uh, when the internet first came out, oh, it's going to be like... 464 00:28:30,744 --> 00:28:33,894 Just all porn and, you know, no one's gonna, you know, it's 465 00:28:33,894 --> 00:28:35,344 going to degrade our morals and 466 00:28:35,419 --> 00:28:37,759 And it's just 30 percent porn, so it's fine. 467 00:28:39,314 --> 00:28:43,004 But, uh, uh, you know, when the microwave first came out, it was, 468 00:28:43,044 --> 00:28:46,264 uh, you know, it's, uh, it's going to take all nutritional value out 469 00:28:46,264 --> 00:28:47,554 of the food that you put in it. 470 00:28:47,554 --> 00:28:51,104 And when electricity first came out, yeah, it's, it's going to. 471 00:28:51,489 --> 00:28:55,189 Uh, kill everything and, you know, cause more fires and 472 00:28:55,539 --> 00:28:56,769 all kinds of stuff like that. 473 00:28:56,769 --> 00:29:00,979 When automobiles came out, it's going to be like a debt of prostitution 474 00:29:00,979 --> 00:29:05,729 and all this other, like there, there's always FUD around new tech. 475 00:29:05,769 --> 00:29:10,619 Um, and, and, you know, Bitcoin of course has, has had it in spades. 476 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:17,829 But the fact that, you know, we have this FUD around or this sort of like, 477 00:29:19,289 --> 00:29:23,239 A lot of people just sort of scared about AI tells me that it's a genuine 478 00:29:23,239 --> 00:29:27,109 innovation, that it's a genuine tool, that it's something that's actually real, 479 00:29:27,509 --> 00:29:32,599 as opposed to something fake like, uh, you know, quantum, uh, quantum computing 480 00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:34,989 or co fusion or something like that. 481 00:29:35,459 --> 00:29:42,949 Because in a sense, like even the people that are, you know, deeply into AI, like 482 00:29:42,949 --> 00:29:48,249 the open AI people, even if they don't really understand how it works, right? 483 00:29:48,259 --> 00:29:52,889 And this is something I point out in the science chapter is that most of 484 00:29:52,889 --> 00:29:58,259 the time, the way innovation occurs is, is not through You know, study of 485 00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,779 theory, it's, it's engineers, right? 486 00:30:00,779 --> 00:30:02,379 It's, it's people that are doing stuff. 487 00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:06,339 And most of the time engineers figure, figure something out and 488 00:30:06,339 --> 00:30:09,189 they're like, I don't know why this works, but it works great. 489 00:30:09,209 --> 00:30:11,169 And I'm going to, I'm going to use it to build stuff. 490 00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:16,089 And then, and then the theoreticians come in later and they, they explain it by 491 00:30:16,109 --> 00:30:18,239 the ideal gas law or something like that. 492 00:30:18,619 --> 00:30:21,029 But, you know, the, the engineers find it first. 493 00:30:21,549 --> 00:30:26,434 And I, I, I suspect that's what's going on with AI in that, uh, that's You know, 494 00:30:26,434 --> 00:30:28,284 they, they found something that works. 495 00:30:28,304 --> 00:30:30,264 They don't really understand how it works. 496 00:30:30,464 --> 00:30:35,264 It's, it's using some sort of like neural net and, uh, various 497 00:30:35,314 --> 00:30:38,484 weighings of like billions of parameters and things like that. 498 00:30:38,494 --> 00:30:44,274 They, you know, and it's based on, okay, like a cat is related to a dog because 499 00:30:44,284 --> 00:30:49,364 they're both kind of pets and, you know, you take this giant corpus of text and 500 00:30:49,754 --> 00:30:54,634 find out relationships and the frequency with which they like, uh, happen and. 501 00:30:55,464 --> 00:31:00,374 They make these relationships and, uh, and somehow it comes out with 502 00:31:00,374 --> 00:31:02,244 something that's kind of sensible. 503 00:31:02,684 --> 00:31:05,524 And they don't really understand how that works at all. 504 00:31:05,564 --> 00:31:11,734 Like the, the, the actual like algorithms, yeah, we understand, but the, the way 505 00:31:11,734 --> 00:31:14,794 it comes up with the actual output. 506 00:31:15,109 --> 00:31:16,799 We don't really understand, right? 507 00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:18,229 But it's there. 508 00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:21,619 And it's, uh, you know, it's kind of, because we don't understand 509 00:31:21,619 --> 00:31:26,129 it, we, a lot of people are kind of scared of it and think that it's 510 00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:27,699 going to destroy the world somehow. 511 00:31:28,099 --> 00:31:30,679 But that, that's how you know it's a genuine innovation. 512 00:31:30,679 --> 00:31:36,194 It's, it's engineers that Produce something and it's not, you know, fiat 513 00:31:36,194 --> 00:31:41,534 academics that are, you know, doing mental masturbation or something, right? 514 00:31:41,554 --> 00:31:45,734 Like it's, it's, it's a much better, uh, sort of system. 515 00:31:45,784 --> 00:31:51,614 And this is how innovation occurred in the past, not centralized, top down, we're 516 00:31:51,624 --> 00:31:53,744 going to make this happen kind of thing. 517 00:31:53,744 --> 00:31:54,084 But. 518 00:31:54,494 --> 00:31:58,054 Bottom up, decentralized, you know, just people trying stuff 519 00:31:58,094 --> 00:32:00,404 and then, oh, wow, that worked. 520 00:32:00,574 --> 00:32:03,214 Okay, let's, let's see why it works. 521 00:32:04,095 --> 00:32:11,085 Yeah, so, so could the fears around it and the people confusing real stupidity 522 00:32:11,085 --> 00:32:15,225 for artificial intelligence, because, you know, those who can't tell this, 523 00:32:16,345 --> 00:32:21,143 who don't understand agency and that you have to have a, a desire an end to 524 00:32:21,143 --> 00:32:23,693 use means to reach that end and stuff. 525 00:32:23,993 --> 00:32:26,823 People who don't understand Austrian economics, basically. 526 00:32:27,113 --> 00:32:30,183 Is it because they're NPCs themselves and lack will? 527 00:32:30,493 --> 00:32:33,383 Like, is that why they're scared? 528 00:32:33,393 --> 00:32:35,803 Because that's where the confusion lies. 529 00:32:35,833 --> 00:32:39,553 Because they, they're not very good at thinking and doing stuff. 530 00:32:40,088 --> 00:32:40,798 Possibly. 531 00:32:40,798 --> 00:32:46,618 I suspect that what fiat money has done is taken or reduced 532 00:32:47,558 --> 00:32:51,153 people's Desire for agency, right? 533 00:32:51,353 --> 00:32:54,583 Or they, they, they get scared of agency because now they're 534 00:32:54,593 --> 00:32:56,693 responsible for their own choices. 535 00:32:56,743 --> 00:33:01,293 And basically you get 12 years of government schooling, at least, uh, 536 00:33:01,323 --> 00:33:06,163 where you're told that, you know, there are experts and those are the 537 00:33:06,173 --> 00:33:07,813 people that you should listen to. 538 00:33:07,813 --> 00:33:08,503 And. 539 00:33:08,763 --> 00:33:12,653 There, there's all this sort of like almost moral language around, um, you 540 00:33:12,653 --> 00:33:18,403 know, listening to the, to your superiors or something like that, which has, um, 541 00:33:18,773 --> 00:33:25,803 I think as you've alluded to, uh, reduce their, uh, agency in many ways, they, 542 00:33:25,813 --> 00:33:31,523 they, they, they don't, um, necessarily want things, uh, they certainly 543 00:33:31,523 --> 00:33:35,793 don't want things that are deep and meaningful if they want anything at all. 544 00:33:35,793 --> 00:33:36,503 It's, it's, it's, it's. 545 00:33:36,663 --> 00:33:40,223 It's very shallow and immediate and a high time preference. 546 00:33:40,253 --> 00:33:45,913 So that those are, uh, you know, generally the incentives 547 00:33:45,913 --> 00:33:48,113 of fiat money is that it does. 548 00:33:48,753 --> 00:33:54,603 Uh, produce very high time preference and living for now, um, and part of 549 00:33:54,603 --> 00:34:01,283 the NPC mindset is, you know, not figuring out eternal truths, but, you 550 00:34:01,283 --> 00:34:05,533 know, what will get me out of trouble right now and make sure that I don't 551 00:34:05,533 --> 00:34:09,733 get in trouble right now, instead of like, sort of standing your ground and 552 00:34:09,733 --> 00:34:12,013 saying, you know, I think this is right. 553 00:34:13,383 --> 00:34:17,873 Certainly for those of us that were against lockdowns and vaccines and 554 00:34:17,873 --> 00:34:22,103 stuff like that from three years ago, standing your ground actually turns 555 00:34:22,103 --> 00:34:23,683 out to have been the correct choice. 556 00:34:24,509 --> 00:34:31,239 but, you know, for the NPC, it's, uh, you know, it's, you know, whatever Fauci was 557 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,969 saying that week, you, you kind of had to spout and sadly it changed every week. 558 00:34:36,969 --> 00:34:40,819 So they were intellectually completely inconsistent, but that 559 00:34:40,819 --> 00:34:42,419 didn't really matter because. 560 00:34:42,899 --> 00:34:46,989 They're high time preference anyway, and Uh, intellectual consistency 561 00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:51,729 is a long term virtue, so they just kept, you know, doubling down on it. 562 00:34:51,749 --> 00:34:55,099 Well, two weeks to flatten the curve and, you know, masks don't 563 00:34:55,099 --> 00:34:57,169 work, but no, masks do work. 564 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,229 No, you need multiple masks, uh, and you need to, uh, you know, masks were, 565 00:35:02,279 --> 00:35:08,729 uh, work except, you know, and like, you need to wear a mask all the time unless 566 00:35:08,729 --> 00:35:10,859 you're protesting Black Lives Matter. 567 00:35:10,879 --> 00:35:15,199 Um, you know, like, it just became, like, more and more twisted. 568 00:35:15,619 --> 00:35:20,249 Uh, and that's, that's sort of the direction that, uh, that 569 00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,839 fiat money pushes you into. 570 00:35:22,369 --> 00:35:26,919 And I, I suspect what you're saying is correct in that it makes us a little 571 00:35:26,919 --> 00:35:33,069 less human because our agency, our will, our, uh, our desires, uh, and 572 00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:35,289 being able to act on those things. 573 00:35:35,739 --> 00:35:36,959 Is what makes us human. 574 00:35:36,959 --> 00:35:42,529 It's, it's, it's very different than, um, uh, you know, uh, you know, what a 575 00:35:42,579 --> 00:35:47,409 plant, what, what a rock can do, but, you know, even amongst living things, 576 00:35:47,949 --> 00:35:50,209 you know, we, we have way more agency. 577 00:35:50,209 --> 00:35:55,569 We have more, more, um, more ability to do different things to 578 00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:57,959 act on the desires that we have. 579 00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:03,589 And sadly, you know, uh, fiat money, I guess in a way makes us less human. 580 00:36:04,446 --> 00:36:05,366 Yeah, beautiful poet. 581 00:36:05,556 --> 00:36:10,296 I mean, I've heard a lot of psychologists, specifically a Belgian 582 00:36:10,296 --> 00:36:16,806 one called Matthias Desmets, I think, talk about like mass formation. 583 00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:21,366 He doesn't use the word mass psychosis, but he's alluding to it, I think. 584 00:36:23,031 --> 00:36:27,331 In this that the, um, what you were talking about the rules that changed every 585 00:36:27,331 --> 00:36:33,061 day when Fauci said this or Fauci said that, uh, and, uh, this psychologist's 586 00:36:33,241 --> 00:36:38,781 point is that it becomes a virtually, a virtue signaling mechanism for the 587 00:36:38,781 --> 00:36:44,061 NPC to be good at adapting to the new rules, no matter how absurd they are. 588 00:36:44,491 --> 00:36:48,900 And the more absurd they get and the more they change, the stronger this urge 589 00:36:48,901 --> 00:36:52,231 to, to follow the flock and be, be like. 590 00:36:52,646 --> 00:36:56,706 ahead of the curve that you're supposed to flatten, uh, that 591 00:36:56,706 --> 00:36:59,266 becomes a, uh, a thing in itself. 592 00:36:59,386 --> 00:37:05,846 Uh, so, so, uh, and I think this is, is very common in, in humans to, to 593 00:37:05,846 --> 00:37:09,286 have this mass dilution thing going on. 594 00:37:09,286 --> 00:37:15,396 So, so is fiat that, like, is fiat a great big mass psychosis thing 595 00:37:15,426 --> 00:37:16,986 for, for lack of a better word? 596 00:37:17,696 --> 00:37:21,286 Well, so I would frame it maybe slightly differently, and I have 597 00:37:21,286 --> 00:37:24,806 a whole chapter on this, on how fiat makes everything political. 598 00:37:24,846 --> 00:37:29,926 So, uh, so what fiat money does, because of the existence of the money printer, 599 00:37:31,006 --> 00:37:37,736 It means that more or less that, uh, you know, it, it makes all issues political. 600 00:37:37,766 --> 00:37:39,826 So I don't have healthcare. 601 00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:44,626 Healthcare is now a political issue because you have a money 602 00:37:44,626 --> 00:37:48,866 printer and therefore the money printer can essentially print 603 00:37:48,866 --> 00:37:50,076 money to solve my problem. 604 00:37:50,076 --> 00:37:53,786 So, um, you know, alluding back to this whole agency thing. 605 00:37:54,081 --> 00:37:58,471 Whenever you have a problem and you're a normal human being in a sound money 606 00:37:58,471 --> 00:38:03,051 world, you try to go solve it yourself because you are responsible for yourself. 607 00:38:03,081 --> 00:38:05,291 And if you have a problem, you try to go solve it. 608 00:38:06,021 --> 00:38:10,361 But under fiat money, it becomes way more collectivist because you have 609 00:38:10,371 --> 00:38:11,861 the presence of a money printer. 610 00:38:12,141 --> 00:38:18,481 If I am sick now, and you have the ability to print money as a government, then... 611 00:38:19,011 --> 00:38:25,561 You not printing money for my benefit is now like a moral dilemma, right? 612 00:38:25,561 --> 00:38:28,391 Like you, you kind of have to do it because it's kind 613 00:38:28,391 --> 00:38:29,741 of like the Superman dilemma. 614 00:38:29,741 --> 00:38:33,781 If you're Superman, you should be constantly doing stuff because you 615 00:38:33,781 --> 00:38:37,221 have the ability and you can, you can save lives all the time, right? 616 00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:40,611 Just there's always something, somebody in trouble somewhere. 617 00:38:40,681 --> 00:38:44,921 And you should be, and that's sort of the dilemma that every central bank is in. 618 00:38:44,931 --> 00:38:49,861 Every government is in because They have the ability to print money and they 619 00:38:49,901 --> 00:38:51,771 claim that it's more or less free, right? 620 00:38:51,781 --> 00:38:55,151 Like whenever they do bailouts or whatever, it's not coming from taxpayers. 621 00:38:55,151 --> 00:38:57,161 No, they're printing money on your behalf. 622 00:38:57,161 --> 00:39:04,621 So everything, any problem that anyone has now becomes a public thing. 623 00:39:05,471 --> 00:39:11,621 And that means that, uh, you know, the more you can claim a problem, the more 624 00:39:11,631 --> 00:39:13,421 money is going to get thrown towards you. 625 00:39:13,421 --> 00:39:19,281 And this is part of the sort of victimhood mentality or victimhood olympics that's 626 00:39:19,281 --> 00:39:24,411 been going on, uh, pretty much everywhere is that you want to claim some victimhood 627 00:39:24,421 --> 00:39:27,961 status so you get more money because you've been injured in some way, you 628 00:39:27,971 --> 00:39:32,651 have some problem, and the government now has to print money on your behalf. 629 00:39:33,381 --> 00:39:37,331 So all that is to say that there's politics now injected into everything 630 00:39:37,331 --> 00:39:43,106 because any problem anyone has now it can It becomes the purview of 631 00:39:43,116 --> 00:39:44,796 the money printer of the government. 632 00:39:45,176 --> 00:39:48,866 Now, they don't necessarily solve it, but more or less they have to 633 00:39:48,866 --> 00:39:54,136 spend money on it to at least appear like they're not complete jerks. 634 00:39:54,606 --> 00:40:02,936 Um, so when you have this political, uh, thing, uh, you, you now have this, uh, 635 00:40:03,581 --> 00:40:09,091 Uh, desire to get stuff, right, to claim victimhood status, but you're not going to 636 00:40:09,091 --> 00:40:11,191 get it until a majority agrees with you. 637 00:40:11,721 --> 00:40:18,231 And the mechanism by which you get a majority to agree with you is propaganda. 638 00:40:18,261 --> 00:40:23,111 And this is sort of like hacking into the psychology of people and, 639 00:40:23,371 --> 00:40:28,971 and, you know, there's a, there's a whole, you know, set of literature, 640 00:40:29,001 --> 00:40:31,361 uh, on like exactly how it works. 641 00:40:32,066 --> 00:40:34,326 you know, what, what techniques you can use and so on. 642 00:40:34,326 --> 00:40:40,886 But this has become the chosen weapon, uh, of sort of getting 643 00:40:40,886 --> 00:40:42,826 manufacturer consent, if you will. 644 00:40:42,866 --> 00:40:48,866 And it's, it's, uh, it's a technique that, that's been more 645 00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:51,146 or less weaponized, uh, and it's... 646 00:40:51,751 --> 00:40:56,981 It's become, uh, a lot easier to implement largely because of, 647 00:40:57,421 --> 00:41:01,361 you know, 12 years of government schooling where you're not really 648 00:41:01,381 --> 00:41:03,421 practicing a lot of agency and so on. 649 00:41:03,811 --> 00:41:11,401 Um, so you, you, you get, uh, a population that is very, uh, docile and you get 650 00:41:11,551 --> 00:41:18,311 propaganda that is very good at, Not necessarily evoking emotion, but like 651 00:41:18,351 --> 00:41:21,381 getting a certain type of behavior. 652 00:41:21,391 --> 00:41:27,521 There's a book by Jacques Ellul that's very good on this, and it goes into the 653 00:41:27,521 --> 00:41:30,741 purpose of propaganda and how it works. 654 00:41:32,056 --> 00:41:35,316 The, the purpose of propaganda isn't necessarily to get 655 00:41:35,316 --> 00:41:36,496 you to believe something. 656 00:41:37,126 --> 00:41:38,906 It is to get you to do something. 657 00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:43,216 And this is a very key distinction because a lot of people think, 658 00:41:43,226 --> 00:41:46,096 okay, well, you know, like they're obviously lying and so on. 659 00:41:47,216 --> 00:41:51,206 Most of good propaganda is almost always true. 660 00:41:51,896 --> 00:41:56,516 The, the way that you use propaganda is to say true things. 661 00:41:56,931 --> 00:42:02,361 Just omit the very, you know, omit other things that are also true 662 00:42:02,741 --> 00:42:06,661 to make it seem like a particular way and ultimately get you to act. 663 00:42:06,681 --> 00:42:11,361 So, for example, during the pandemic, we had the mask mandates. 664 00:42:12,371 --> 00:42:13,431 Everyone had to wear a mask. 665 00:42:14,031 --> 00:42:17,351 Now, it didn't matter what you believed about the mask. 666 00:42:17,856 --> 00:42:18,256 Right? 667 00:42:18,876 --> 00:42:19,196 Right? 668 00:42:19,216 --> 00:42:23,066 If you, if you believed that they were effective, you still wore the mask. 669 00:42:23,276 --> 00:42:26,816 Uh, you obviously wore the mask, but if you didn't believe that they were 670 00:42:26,816 --> 00:42:28,516 effective, you still wore the mask. 671 00:42:29,321 --> 00:42:29,801 Why? 672 00:42:29,801 --> 00:42:34,811 Because that the, the key thing to propaganda is to get you to 673 00:42:34,811 --> 00:42:39,521 comply, to do something rather than to believe something. 674 00:42:39,851 --> 00:42:44,951 And, and in effect, um, it, it's, it's sort of reversing the causality of how. 675 00:42:45,776 --> 00:42:51,296 Most people think they, they act, which is that they think that they come up with, 676 00:42:51,336 --> 00:42:56,106 uh, proper actions by thinking through the rational options and picking the most 677 00:42:56,106 --> 00:42:58,986 rational one, and then doing that action. 678 00:42:59,286 --> 00:43:00,946 Actually, it works the other way around. 679 00:43:01,606 --> 00:43:06,156 The action that you do is rationalized by your brain to 680 00:43:06,156 --> 00:43:08,196 justify whatever it is that you did. 681 00:43:08,246 --> 00:43:14,461 So, once you get people to act a certain way, Then the brain comes 682 00:43:14,651 --> 00:43:18,061 along later, uh, which is exactly kind of what happened, right? 683 00:43:18,061 --> 00:43:23,711 It's, it's okay, like, I am doing all of this stuff and that's now a 684 00:43:23,711 --> 00:43:27,601 part of my identity and I'm going to continue in that direction. 685 00:43:27,601 --> 00:43:32,371 And that, that's, I think, what, uh, the connection between fiat money and 686 00:43:32,381 --> 00:43:37,151 what you would call, I guess, mass psychosis or mass belief or whatever. 687 00:43:37,161 --> 00:43:37,621 It's. 688 00:43:38,116 --> 00:43:44,586 It's ultimately political, uh, as a, uh, as a way to, um, sort 689 00:43:44,586 --> 00:43:48,996 of manufacture consent for, you know, particular policy and so on. 690 00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:56,219 that sounds almost even counter to praxeology, like, uh, uh, I mean, I know 691 00:43:56,219 --> 00:43:59,709 that that's how consciousness works, and that's how the brain works, that 692 00:43:59,709 --> 00:44:03,389 we, we, we tell ourselves stories and hindsight and stuff, that that is a 693 00:44:03,389 --> 00:44:06,089 part of the mechanics of, of a brain. 694 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:09,279 Uh, but still, uh, I believe. 695 00:44:09,944 --> 00:44:14,054 Praxeology to be very true that we, we, we envision something in the 696 00:44:14,054 --> 00:44:19,294 future and we act upon it because we can envision, uh, you know, a future 697 00:44:19,294 --> 00:44:21,514 without our action and with our action. 698 00:44:21,514 --> 00:44:26,794 And we choose between a hierarchy of needs, uh, what to do next. 699 00:44:27,454 --> 00:44:33,644 So, so like, is, uh, is propaganda like counter to the, is it like 700 00:44:33,811 --> 00:44:37,411 no, I, I think it's fully consistent with praxeology in the sense 701 00:44:37,411 --> 00:44:41,651 that there's now another need and it's a political one, right? 702 00:44:41,711 --> 00:44:46,631 Um, so what, what fiat money does is it puts the political 703 00:44:46,641 --> 00:44:48,051 above almost everything else. 704 00:44:48,566 --> 00:44:54,416 So, political, um, or I guess, I guess you could call it like a status seeking 705 00:44:54,416 --> 00:44:58,648 game, or making sure that you're not at the bottom of the status ladder, so 706 00:44:58,688 --> 00:45:05,308 it's, if you get in a zero sum game, like being at the bottom really, really 707 00:45:05,348 --> 00:45:10,548 sucks, right, and, and it's a, it's a zero sum game, so you're, if, if you 708 00:45:10,568 --> 00:45:14,866 get down to the bottom, like, You have very little hope of going back up, 709 00:45:15,155 --> 00:45:16,995 but it's, it's also a zero sum game. 710 00:45:16,995 --> 00:45:20,775 So like, you know, by you being down there, there are other people 711 00:45:20,785 --> 00:45:22,405 that are able to advance and so on. 712 00:45:22,835 --> 00:45:25,225 Uh, and politics is very much a zero sum game. 713 00:45:25,225 --> 00:45:28,405 So to keep up, you need to... 714 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,330 You had this need to play the status game because so much of 715 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,580 the fiat economy is political. 716 00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:40,850 And if you don't do these things, then you're going to sink to the bottom. 717 00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:45,530 So instead of in a sound money economy where you can add goods or 718 00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:49,510 services without regard to status, like, you're still going to buy a 719 00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:53,510 good or service if it's good, whether it's from a low class person or not. 720 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,230 Uh, with political opinions and such, tho those you have to 721 00:45:58,230 --> 00:46:02,280 take from the top because if you don't, then your status goes down. 722 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,780 So you there, there's. 723 00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:12,020 A clear need for virtue signaling as almost like a market good because of this 724 00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:17,810 presence of a money printer that has the ability to control a lot of your life. 725 00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:23,600 Um, and so you, for a person in a fiat money system, they, 726 00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:25,790 of course, envision a future. 727 00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:30,010 where they're virtue signaling versus not virtue signaling. 728 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,910 And the consequences are such that because it's political, you suffer 729 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:41,190 for not virtue signaling, which might include stuff like getting fired 730 00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:47,200 from your job or, you know, being ostracized by your neighbors and so on. 731 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:53,544 So, it brings, it just brings in another whole set of considerations. 732 00:46:54,054 --> 00:46:59,964 Uh, which I don't think are necessarily legitimate or valuable and is actually 733 00:46:59,984 --> 00:47:03,544 civilization destroying, but that, that's essentially what's happening. 734 00:47:04,244 --> 00:47:08,264 The show is also sponsored by Orange Pill App, the Bitcoin only social network where 735 00:47:08,264 --> 00:47:09,924 you can stack friends who stack sats. 736 00:47:10,524 --> 00:47:13,384 You can connect with your favorite Bitcoiners on the app, make local 737 00:47:13,384 --> 00:47:16,434 connections, and even connect with Bitcoiners around the world. 738 00:47:16,984 --> 00:47:20,484 You can see what's going on in your area and organize and attend local events. 739 00:47:20,925 --> 00:47:23,675 I've been to multiple events organized on Orange Pill App and they brought 740 00:47:23,675 --> 00:47:25,715 Bitcoiners together from all over. 741 00:47:26,194 --> 00:47:29,404 And now, with group chat, it's easier than ever to stay in touch 742 00:47:29,404 --> 00:47:30,724 with all your Bitcoin friends. 743 00:47:31,133 --> 00:47:33,323 The best part is you know it's high signal. 744 00:47:33,413 --> 00:47:36,403 There's no spam on OrangePillApp because everyone pays to be there. 745 00:47:36,613 --> 00:47:39,948 So download OrangePillApp on Apple or Android and start building 746 00:47:39,968 --> 00:47:41,268 your local network of Bitcoiners. 747 00:47:42,086 --> 00:47:43,686 Next up, The Bitcoin Way. 748 00:47:44,216 --> 00:47:47,526 Their mission is to onboard, educate, and remove barriers to 749 00:47:47,526 --> 00:47:49,136 taking self custody of your bitcoin. 750 00:47:49,686 --> 00:47:53,996 They cover everything from cold wallets to nodes, no KYC bitcoin purchases, 751 00:47:54,046 --> 00:47:56,476 inheritance planning, payments, and more. 752 00:47:57,006 --> 00:47:59,816 Whether you're new to bitcoin or you're an experienced bitcoiner looking to 753 00:47:59,826 --> 00:48:03,696 expand your freedom footprint, Or you know someone who this sounds perfect for? 754 00:48:04,056 --> 00:48:05,976 The Bitcoin Way has something for you. 755 00:48:06,616 --> 00:48:10,136 They have a skilled team, well versed in the Bitcoin space, and their goal is to 756 00:48:10,136 --> 00:48:14,026 make all the complexities of Bitcoin as straightforward as possible for everyone. 757 00:48:14,586 --> 00:48:17,086 And the best part is you can get started with a free 30 758 00:48:17,086 --> 00:48:18,266 minute call with their team. 759 00:48:18,786 --> 00:48:20,326 Go to thebitcoinway. 760 00:48:20,346 --> 00:48:22,556 com slash contact for more info. 761 00:48:23,157 --> 00:48:25,057 Our newest sponsor is Geyser. 762 00:48:25,387 --> 00:48:28,277 They are the portal to the creator economy on Bitcoin. 763 00:48:28,977 --> 00:48:32,697 On Geyser, creators can monetize their work through their communities 764 00:48:32,727 --> 00:48:34,347 in a social and engaging way. 765 00:48:34,727 --> 00:48:37,517 And supporters can send sats to their favorite projects. 766 00:48:37,964 --> 00:48:41,264 Geyser has also recently integrated with Zapps and Podcasting 2. 767 00:48:41,264 --> 00:48:41,724 0. 768 00:48:42,074 --> 00:48:45,624 So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page. 769 00:48:46,384 --> 00:48:47,844 We have a Geyser fund ourselves. 770 00:48:47,854 --> 00:48:50,014 It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin. 771 00:48:51,024 --> 00:48:54,884 So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser. 772 00:48:54,884 --> 00:48:55,784 fund today. 773 00:48:56,363 --> 00:49:01,483 is virtue signaling a direct, uh, result of money printing in the end then? 774 00:49:01,483 --> 00:49:07,440 Because it's, money printing leads to politicization and, uh, that in turn 775 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,060 leads to propaganda and that leads to virtue signaling and it leads to 776 00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:14,590 this race to be, you don't have to be faster than the bear that's chasing 777 00:49:14,590 --> 00:49:18,200 you, you just have to be faster than like the, the, the next sucker. 778 00:49:18,428 --> 00:49:22,018 yeah, I, I, I would say it's, uh, it's even simpler than that. 779 00:49:22,038 --> 00:49:25,798 Like, uh, essentially everyone in some way works for the money printer. 780 00:49:26,098 --> 00:49:27,738 If you don't have the right... 781 00:49:28,353 --> 00:49:32,123 opinions, then you're going to get cut off by the money printer, right? 782 00:49:32,133 --> 00:49:35,223 Like, you're not going to get paid by the money printer in some way. 783 00:49:35,273 --> 00:49:42,763 Uh, and this might be, you know, uh, a couple of degrees off from, or, uh, 784 00:49:43,063 --> 00:49:45,963 it might be like a second or third order effect or something like that. 785 00:49:45,963 --> 00:49:51,823 But that political angle is an important part of every job now. 786 00:49:51,843 --> 00:49:53,783 If you don't have the right politics. 787 00:49:54,248 --> 00:49:59,038 Well, let, let's, let's just trace it like, say you work for a big company and 788 00:49:59,038 --> 00:50:05,958 you're, you have an anti-vaccine, um, you know, thought or, uh, and you, you're, 789 00:50:05,963 --> 00:50:07,398 you're trying to make this decision. 790 00:50:07,398 --> 00:50:08,748 Do I get the vaccine or not? 791 00:50:08,748 --> 00:50:14,453 Well, If you don't get the vaccine, uh, maybe the company can fire you. 792 00:50:14,513 --> 00:50:16,983 Uh, and why is the company doing that? 793 00:50:16,983 --> 00:50:22,073 Because they are getting significant subsidies from the government, whether 794 00:50:22,083 --> 00:50:24,823 in regulation or direct funding. 795 00:50:25,233 --> 00:50:27,683 Uh, you know, certainly the airlines did that, right? 796 00:50:27,683 --> 00:50:31,023 They, they got huge bailouts because they... 797 00:50:31,453 --> 00:50:33,743 Um, you know, shut down during COVID. 798 00:50:33,763 --> 00:50:37,493 So they got these bailouts from the government and the government was pretty 799 00:50:37,493 --> 00:50:39,273 much like, Hey, we have these vaccines. 800 00:50:39,343 --> 00:50:41,463 You're going to need to make everybody take them. 801 00:50:41,873 --> 00:50:44,213 And they enforced it enthusiastically. 802 00:50:44,223 --> 00:50:44,513 Why? 803 00:50:44,543 --> 00:50:47,043 Because if, had they not done that. 804 00:50:47,448 --> 00:50:49,808 Then the next time they need a bailout, they're not getting it. 805 00:50:50,238 --> 00:50:55,228 So it all comes down from the money printer in some way, shape, 806 00:50:55,228 --> 00:50:58,658 or form to the actual people that have to make the decision. 807 00:50:59,478 --> 00:51:02,118 Like with vaccines, maybe that's like very overt. 808 00:51:02,663 --> 00:51:07,123 It comes down to something even more subtle like, uh, you know, you know, 809 00:51:07,123 --> 00:51:12,203 um, supporting Black Lives Matter, for example, like, uh, oh, we, we are going 810 00:51:12,223 --> 00:51:18,163 to support this thing because that is, uh, you know, something that is part of 811 00:51:18,163 --> 00:51:24,163 the ESG thing, well, um, or DEI thing, and well, who, who's enforcing that? 812 00:51:24,213 --> 00:51:27,023 Who, who's, who's demanding that from the company? 813 00:51:27,043 --> 00:51:30,753 Well, the, it's the vanguards and black rocks of the world. 814 00:51:31,123 --> 00:51:32,813 And where, where are they getting their money? 815 00:51:32,813 --> 00:51:35,723 Well, they, they print it into existence because they, they are, 816 00:51:35,733 --> 00:51:40,643 they're essentially banks and they, they have, uh, they have all the money. 817 00:51:40,663 --> 00:51:44,503 So, you know, fiat money is creating all of it. 818 00:51:44,553 --> 00:51:48,164 And if you don't do these things, it's, it's, it's become a part of 819 00:51:48,164 --> 00:51:50,573 your job description essentially because of the money printer. 820 00:51:50,943 --> 00:51:52,723 And it's, it's a direct consequence. 821 00:51:53,213 --> 00:51:56,923 Uh, and if you don't virtue signal, I mean, maybe you get fired. 822 00:51:56,923 --> 00:51:57,063 That's. 823 00:51:57,408 --> 00:52:00,588 Probably the most drastic, but more likely it's you're not going 824 00:52:00,588 --> 00:52:02,178 to get considered for promotions. 825 00:52:02,178 --> 00:52:05,928 You might, you're, you're probably not going to get invited to the projects 826 00:52:05,958 --> 00:52:12,458 that are, you know, going to get you promoted or be able to allow you to 827 00:52:12,568 --> 00:52:14,479 prove yourself to your superiors. 828 00:52:14,828 --> 00:52:18,628 Um, maybe the, you know, next company hiring you is. 829 00:52:19,198 --> 00:52:22,958 Uh, is going to hear about it from somebody and you know, you get marked as 830 00:52:22,958 --> 00:52:24,498 a troublemaker or something like that. 831 00:52:24,788 --> 00:52:29,838 There are all sorts of consequences that everyone has to sort of like take 832 00:52:29,838 --> 00:52:34,878 into account when they're, when they're making these like, uh, uh, decisions, 833 00:52:34,938 --> 00:52:38,218 uh, it's very much praxeological. 834 00:52:38,648 --> 00:52:44,198 It's just, there's this enormous, enormous thing called fiat money 835 00:52:44,198 --> 00:52:48,578 that skews all of these incentives so that they're actually destructive to 836 00:52:48,578 --> 00:52:50,148 civilization rather than building it up. 837 00:52:51,863 --> 00:52:53,913 Yeah, beautifully put. 838 00:52:53,973 --> 00:52:58,623 Uh, I, I mean, this is why I love the Bitcoin space so much. 839 00:52:58,623 --> 00:53:02,413 Because when you hang out with Bitcoiners, you get the literal opposite. 840 00:53:02,443 --> 00:53:05,343 You get people's honest and thoughtful opinion. 841 00:53:05,563 --> 00:53:09,623 You know, you don't, you almost always disagree with everyone, 842 00:53:09,623 --> 00:53:11,203 but that's what Bitcoin is. 843 00:53:11,203 --> 00:53:13,303 It's people that agree to disagree. 844 00:53:13,313 --> 00:53:14,143 It's beautiful. 845 00:53:14,153 --> 00:53:15,103 That's all we do. 846 00:53:15,103 --> 00:53:19,643 It's agreeing to disagree and getting closer to some type of truth by 847 00:53:19,643 --> 00:53:21,418 having Thoughtful conversations. 848 00:53:21,418 --> 00:53:25,978 You know, you can always learn something from a Bitcoiner because they've 849 00:53:26,028 --> 00:53:30,488 thought things through and it's so refreshing when you compare it to, 850 00:53:30,538 --> 00:53:36,248 to the fiat, you know, chasing all sorts of fictitious bullshit goals. 851 00:53:36,662 --> 00:53:37,282 Yeah, indeed. 852 00:53:37,282 --> 00:53:41,402 And it's, it's kind of sad because if you're, if you're told an 853 00:53:41,402 --> 00:53:45,272 opinion, uh, then you obviously haven't thought too much about it. 854 00:53:45,322 --> 00:53:50,622 Uh, maybe you rationalize it later and you can kind of see it when you argue 855 00:53:50,622 --> 00:53:55,667 with them because they, They don't know what the actual rationale is, and 856 00:53:55,667 --> 00:53:57,707 they just sort of make crap up, right? 857 00:53:58,207 --> 00:54:00,027 Oh yeah, I'm doing this because of this. 858 00:54:00,057 --> 00:54:01,397 It's like, that doesn't make any sense. 859 00:54:01,397 --> 00:54:03,557 It's like, well, I'm going to do it anyway. 860 00:54:04,277 --> 00:54:09,877 It kind of does take away a lot of agency in many ways. 861 00:54:11,447 --> 00:54:15,847 And I can kind of understand it because it's very comforting, because if you, 862 00:54:15,887 --> 00:54:20,887 if you just follow the rules, right, if you just comply, then you don't have to 863 00:54:20,917 --> 00:54:25,537 think for yourself and you don't have to be responsible for your own decisions, 864 00:54:26,037 --> 00:54:27,877 uh, which I think makes us less human. 865 00:54:27,877 --> 00:54:34,377 But for a lot of people, it's, well, like I, if I do everything correctly 866 00:54:34,417 --> 00:54:36,967 and, uh, you know, I get screwed, then. 867 00:54:37,607 --> 00:54:41,247 You know, at least I can complain or something, uh, whereas if you make the 868 00:54:41,247 --> 00:54:47,067 decision and it's of your own volition and you screw up, then you don't, you 869 00:54:47,067 --> 00:54:48,977 have no one to blame for, but yourself. 870 00:54:49,017 --> 00:54:54,817 Uh, they, they like the option of having, being able to blame society or the powers 871 00:54:54,817 --> 00:54:58,707 that be or something if they get screwed over as long as they do the right thing. 872 00:54:59,207 --> 00:55:03,737 Um, it, it, it is kind of comforting, but, um, but yeah, 873 00:55:03,737 --> 00:55:05,527 it, it leads to sort of like a. 874 00:55:05,527 --> 00:55:05,807 Yeah. 875 00:55:06,002 --> 00:55:11,992 Very monothink, like, uh, very cultish behavior, almost, from, uh, 876 00:55:12,012 --> 00:55:14,172 from the people that are in fiat. 877 00:55:14,172 --> 00:55:20,112 And it's, it's kind of getting scary because people are saying just... 878 00:55:21,427 --> 00:55:26,627 Outright ridiculous things as if they're, like, legitimate, like, we're, you 879 00:55:26,627 --> 00:55:29,867 know, children should be property of the state and stuff like that, which 880 00:55:30,367 --> 00:55:32,477 I think is just absolutely ridiculous. 881 00:55:32,487 --> 00:55:39,677 But I will say one thing, Knut, and I would not be doing myself a good service 882 00:55:39,677 --> 00:55:46,037 if I did not at least say something that I think you would disagree with. 883 00:55:46,727 --> 00:55:52,177 And, uh, and so I, I, I, I've been, I've been playing around 884 00:55:52,177 --> 00:55:54,237 with this thought in my mind. 885 00:55:54,707 --> 00:55:56,997 I think fiat money is an atheist money. 886 00:56:00,232 --> 00:56:01,182 Okay, okay. 887 00:56:02,062 --> 00:56:05,482 That whole debate, are we really going down that part of the rabbit hole? 888 00:56:05,777 --> 00:56:07,817 Well, so, so, I mean, hear me out, right? 889 00:56:07,827 --> 00:56:08,037 Like, 890 00:56:08,172 --> 00:56:08,992 Yeah, yeah, okay. 891 00:56:10,277 --> 00:56:16,757 Alright, so, so, my, my, my thought on that is, is basically that, uh, the 892 00:56:16,767 --> 00:56:22,962 general pattern with, with atheism is that Once you remove god from the equation, 893 00:56:23,952 --> 00:56:27,712 Wait a minute, I'd like your definition of atheism first, because 894 00:56:27,712 --> 00:56:29,542 I think yours might differ from mine. 895 00:56:30,282 --> 00:56:33,942 oh, what, what, oh, what, I, I, I think it's somebody that doesn't 896 00:56:33,942 --> 00:56:35,432 believe god exists, right, like, 897 00:56:36,207 --> 00:56:40,257 Yeah, it's not a belief in that there's no God, and that's a 898 00:56:40,267 --> 00:56:42,167 big, important distinction. 899 00:56:42,167 --> 00:56:45,877 It's just that you don't buy the theory that there is one. 900 00:56:46,807 --> 00:56:48,437 And there's a, there's a difference there. 901 00:56:49,057 --> 00:56:51,067 no, no, no, that would be agnosticism. 902 00:56:51,077 --> 00:56:52,627 You don't know is 903 00:56:52,677 --> 00:56:53,277 No, agnosticism 904 00:56:53,517 --> 00:56:53,637 No, 905 00:56:54,527 --> 00:56:56,947 is when you say that there's a 50 50 percentage. 906 00:56:56,967 --> 00:56:59,737 An atheist would say, like, there's a 99 percent. 907 00:56:59,944 --> 00:57:05,124 no, traditional agnosticism is you cannot know whether or not there is a god. 908 00:57:05,624 --> 00:57:09,954 Okay, this is not how it's defined in Richard Dawkins book 909 00:57:09,954 --> 00:57:11,124 on the subject, for instance. 910 00:57:11,264 --> 00:57:12,724 Yeah, because he's an idiot. 911 00:57:12,734 --> 00:57:16,554 I mean, he and Sam Harris and all the new atheists are idiots. 912 00:57:16,874 --> 00:57:21,344 They don't study any ancient literature or, like, the traditional arguments 913 00:57:21,344 --> 00:57:24,764 for any of that, so they make up definitions however they like, and 914 00:57:24,764 --> 00:57:27,534 they burn down straw men all day 915 00:57:27,629 --> 00:57:29,739 Well, he also coined the word meme. 916 00:57:30,149 --> 00:57:32,359 So you're, let's go with your definition. 917 00:57:32,379 --> 00:57:36,489 You don't buy the other arguments for, uh, God. 918 00:57:36,489 --> 00:57:38,459 Is that so God might exist? 919 00:57:38,899 --> 00:57:42,579 I don't buy the proposition of an omnipotent being of any sort. 920 00:57:42,909 --> 00:57:46,779 Because I think, and it has to do with agency, because I think such a being 921 00:57:46,779 --> 00:57:48,799 wouldn't be compelled to act ever. 922 00:57:49,149 --> 00:57:52,759 If you're immortal and indestructible, you would never need to act at all. 923 00:57:53,409 --> 00:57:55,719 Especially if you're omnipotent on top of that. 924 00:57:56,069 --> 00:58:00,699 So I don't think an omnipotent, any type of creator... 925 00:58:01,085 --> 00:58:02,405 Whatever need to act. 926 00:58:02,535 --> 00:58:07,955 So therefore, I don't believe that something created what we are. 927 00:58:08,465 --> 00:58:09,575 Okay, but go on. 928 00:58:09,605 --> 00:58:11,545 I'm eager to hear your thoughts. 929 00:58:11,635 --> 00:58:12,655 So let's go back. 930 00:58:12,655 --> 00:58:20,325 So I call it an atheist money because it, it sort of denies, uh, uh, well, 931 00:58:20,335 --> 00:58:23,905 the general pattern with atheism is that once you remove God from the equation, 932 00:58:23,905 --> 00:58:27,395 you deny sort of any other order, right? 933 00:58:27,455 --> 00:58:33,119 Any other, Uh, sort of like, uh, uh, specifically traditional. 934 00:58:33,529 --> 00:58:38,349 Um, uh, rules or laws or something like that. 935 00:58:38,349 --> 00:58:43,509 So generally you become your own master and you, you decide your own rules. 936 00:58:44,169 --> 00:58:48,259 And, uh, that, that was certainly the case with, um, you know, communism, 937 00:58:48,259 --> 00:58:51,909 for example, they, they decided, all right, we're, we're going to make up 938 00:58:51,909 --> 00:58:55,779 our own rules because there's no God, there, there is no other sort of like. 939 00:58:56,624 --> 00:59:02,434 order that you need to submit yourself to, uh, or that, uh, or any other, 940 00:59:02,554 --> 00:59:08,184 uh, it's sort of like a suspending of, uh, of reality or like denying, um, 941 00:59:08,494 --> 00:59:12,064 certain other realities that you don't believe in or, or, or whatever it is. 942 00:59:12,514 --> 00:59:18,664 Um, so the way I see fiat money is denying in some way natural 943 00:59:18,664 --> 00:59:20,424 law and, and natural law. 944 00:59:20,454 --> 00:59:23,564 I mean, there, there are sort of like formulations of 945 00:59:23,574 --> 00:59:25,334 natural law that come from. 946 00:59:25,964 --> 00:59:31,634 Sort of like, um, you know, uh, an atheistic perspective, which requires, 947 00:59:31,634 --> 00:59:35,564 okay, well, obviously we're having this conversation, therefore you must have a 948 00:59:35,564 --> 00:59:41,274 will, and therefore, you know, you're, you're, um, you're, you're admitting the 949 00:59:41,274 --> 00:59:43,004 agency of the other person, and so on. 950 00:59:43,014 --> 00:59:45,724 I, I, I always found those sort of like sneaky and... 951 00:59:46,174 --> 00:59:51,854 Sort of coming, coming to this from the back door, uh, because it doesn't 952 00:59:51,864 --> 00:59:56,294 actually answer any of the questions about whether or not this exists 953 00:59:56,294 --> 00:59:58,624 and why it exists or how it exists. 954 00:59:58,634 --> 01:00:03,184 It's just, it exists and therefore we need to Uh, we, we need to 955 01:00:03,244 --> 01:00:04,594 obey it or something like that. 956 01:00:04,984 --> 01:00:14,424 Um, but all that is to say that fiat money is, uh, is a denial of, uh, the fund. 957 01:00:14,484 --> 01:00:17,364 It's creating its own rules about Right. 958 01:00:17,364 --> 01:00:23,994 It's, it's creating its own, uh, it's man trying to, Um, deny the property rights 959 01:00:24,014 --> 01:00:29,404 of other people by essentially saying we're making up the rules and we can, 960 01:00:30,094 --> 01:00:35,374 we can, uh, sort of sneakily through the back door, through inflation, through 961 01:00:35,664 --> 01:00:41,864 stealth taxation, steal from others because that, that is, that is okay in 962 01:00:41,864 --> 01:00:48,364 the light of, in, in the absence of this natural law of this Other real order. 963 01:00:48,744 --> 01:00:56,234 Um, and, uh, whereas sound money, uh, is based on this idea of natural law, 964 01:00:56,234 --> 01:01:01,744 and I, I, I really do believe that having, uh, natural law for natural 965 01:01:01,744 --> 01:01:07,774 law, you, you need for any morality really, uh, other than like a nietzche 966 01:01:07,804 --> 01:01:09,784 one, which is very sociopathic. 967 01:01:10,554 --> 01:01:11,664 You need a creator. 968 01:01:11,664 --> 01:01:14,274 You need, you need some, you, you need, you need some order. 969 01:01:14,274 --> 01:01:16,994 Like 'cause how, how do you answer? 970 01:01:17,474 --> 01:01:21,324 Why, why should you believe, like, how do you go from is to ought? 971 01:01:21,334 --> 01:01:26,044 How, why should you have, uh, you know, respect other people's property rights? 972 01:01:26,174 --> 01:01:30,484 And, and so that, that's my argument for why I think fiat 973 01:01:30,484 --> 01:01:32,454 money is an atheist money. 974 01:01:32,494 --> 01:01:35,024 So I, I just wanted to throw that out there. 975 01:01:35,584 --> 01:01:37,904 So I, I, I don't know. 976 01:01:37,904 --> 01:01:38,554 What do you think? 977 01:01:39,754 --> 01:01:41,184 Yeah, I'll give you a reply. 978 01:01:41,184 --> 01:01:43,794 It's going to be quite long, but I'll do my best. 979 01:01:44,234 --> 01:01:50,214 So, to shorten it down, I would say that I don't believe you need 980 01:01:50,234 --> 01:01:54,264 a creator to accept natural law. 981 01:01:55,064 --> 01:02:00,484 On the contrary, I say, I think that Even Hoppe's argumentation ethics is 982 01:02:00,484 --> 01:02:05,214 a good basis for morality, since you can prove that, you know, you can, 983 01:02:05,234 --> 01:02:10,784 you can literally prove from deductive reasoning that, uh, forceful interactions 984 01:02:10,814 --> 01:02:15,994 are probably, uh, not beneficial to you, but, but detrimental to you. 985 01:02:16,334 --> 01:02:20,014 So, so you can build your entire morality around, around 986 01:02:20,014 --> 01:02:21,304 that framework, if you will. 987 01:02:21,654 --> 01:02:22,424 Furthermore... 988 01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:23,629 I view state, 989 01:02:23,664 --> 01:02:25,574 like a utilitarian morality. 990 01:02:26,209 --> 01:02:28,909 yes, very utilitarian, yes, I would 991 01:02:29,094 --> 01:02:31,374 Okay, but, but utility is subjective, right? 992 01:02:31,484 --> 01:02:36,584 So, how do you, how do you, how do you get, like, you don't have a meter here. 993 01:02:36,594 --> 01:02:39,934 You, how do you determine whether something is beneficial to you or 994 01:02:39,934 --> 01:02:44,014 not if you don't have, um, if you don't have an objective standard? 995 01:02:44,539 --> 01:02:48,129 Well, I think that's ingrained in all of us, like, we have 996 01:02:48,129 --> 01:02:49,499 a survival instinct, right? 997 01:02:49,499 --> 01:02:54,119 So we don't want violence to happen to us and when we realize that 998 01:02:54,169 --> 01:02:57,799 if we respect property rights, there's a higher likelihood that 999 01:02:57,849 --> 01:02:58,699 other people will respect ours. 1000 01:03:00,449 --> 01:03:05,809 Uh, uh, then you can just deductively reason yourself to, I have a higher 1001 01:03:06,339 --> 01:03:10,199 survival probability and so does my family if we're just nice to one another 1002 01:03:10,199 --> 01:03:11,979 and do things consensually instead 1003 01:03:12,054 --> 01:03:15,934 I mean, your, your, your contention then is that existence is beneficial 1004 01:03:15,934 --> 01:03:18,384 or good or, uh, in some way, 1005 01:03:19,989 --> 01:03:23,559 Well, uh, we don't know the, what the alternative is. 1006 01:03:23,759 --> 01:03:27,969 So in a sense, nobody knows, uh, what nothingness feels like. 1007 01:03:27,969 --> 01:03:31,319 It probably feels like whatever happened before your birth, 1008 01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:33,959 but, but, but still there's. 1009 01:03:34,594 --> 01:03:39,244 The, I think that the finiteness of a human lifetime is what gives it value. 1010 01:03:39,544 --> 01:03:41,214 It's because it's like Bitcoin. 1011 01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:45,254 That's why Bitcoin maps on so perfectly to the scarcity of a human life. 1012 01:03:45,554 --> 01:03:49,954 So I view the, the, the thought of an afterlife as a sort of celestial money 1013 01:03:49,954 --> 01:03:55,004 printer, if you will, because it's the promise of something more of a scarce 1014 01:03:55,044 --> 01:03:56,884 resource that isn't really there. 1015 01:03:56,969 --> 01:04:00,349 you're attributing value to a human life, period. 1016 01:04:01,114 --> 01:04:03,034 No, I'm saying that individuals do. 1017 01:04:03,419 --> 01:04:06,599 so, like, you, you need some justification. 1018 01:04:07,559 --> 01:04:09,419 Why he human life is valuable. 1019 01:04:09,419 --> 01:04:09,629 No. 1020 01:04:09,844 --> 01:04:13,144 observation in the world is that people value their lives. 1021 01:04:14,129 --> 01:04:14,459 Okay. 1022 01:04:14,459 --> 01:04:15,509 That that is true. 1023 01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,609 People do subjectively value their lives. 1024 01:04:17,609 --> 01:04:17,879 Yes. 1025 01:04:18,084 --> 01:04:18,724 yeah, yeah. 1026 01:04:18,964 --> 01:04:24,774 And I think that if you, if you just observe that you value your life 1027 01:04:24,774 --> 01:04:28,434 and that other people's value their lives too, then you can deductively 1028 01:04:28,904 --> 01:04:31,874 reason yourself to a moral standard. 1029 01:04:32,314 --> 01:04:35,154 Some people may need a, uh, guidelines. 1030 01:04:35,459 --> 01:04:38,339 the, these are all subjective valuations. 1031 01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:42,979 How does that make, you know, survival of everybody? 1032 01:04:42,979 --> 01:04:44,719 A, an objective value? 1033 01:04:45,259 --> 01:04:46,639 But so is belief in God. 1034 01:04:46,679 --> 01:04:48,539 That's also a subjective thought. 1035 01:04:48,969 --> 01:04:53,239 Like, it's you think that, I don't, and well, that's 1036 01:04:53,569 --> 01:04:58,909 Well, no, no, no, but, but I, I, I'm, I'm contending, I I'm not talking about mine. 1037 01:04:58,969 --> 01:05:03,629 I'm talking about yours, which is, You believe that human life has value. 1038 01:05:03,639 --> 01:05:05,879 Where does, where does that belief come from? 1039 01:05:05,879 --> 01:05:07,899 And you're, you're saying it can be derived, 1040 01:05:08,529 --> 01:05:10,099 Why do you believe it? 1041 01:05:10,229 --> 01:05:12,569 admitted that it's a subjective task. 1042 01:05:12,569 --> 01:05:15,949 I mean, they're, they're suicidal people, for example, that think 1043 01:05:15,949 --> 01:05:17,299 their life is worth nothing. 1044 01:05:17,329 --> 01:05:20,989 So like, it's, uh, it's universal. 1045 01:05:21,009 --> 01:05:24,199 So how do you, how do you come up with, okay, a lot of 1046 01:05:24,209 --> 01:05:25,679 people do value their lives. 1047 01:05:25,749 --> 01:05:28,669 Therefore, time is objectively valuable. 1048 01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:34,950 I think, since valuations are subjective, the only thing that, if you were 1049 01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:38,850 immortal and indestructible, you wouldn't ever be compelled to act, because you 1050 01:05:38,850 --> 01:05:41,040 could postpone every act indefinitely. 1051 01:05:41,580 --> 01:05:42,150 I mean, if 1052 01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:45,270 Well, I mean, we're not talking about omnipotent beings, we're 1053 01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:47,200 talking about your particular belief. 1054 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:48,530 You don't believe in God, 1055 01:05:48,550 --> 01:05:49,050 Yeah, yeah. 1056 01:05:49,090 --> 01:05:50,130 I'm talking about me. 1057 01:05:50,220 --> 01:05:53,680 If I, if I was immortal and indestructible, I wouldn't act 1058 01:05:53,980 --> 01:05:58,710 because a second or a minute or a day wouldn't be valuable to me. 1059 01:05:58,980 --> 01:06:01,940 There would be no distinction between the value of a, of a, 1060 01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,920 of a day and a 10, 000 years, 1061 01:06:05,010 --> 01:06:07,220 I mean, what does that have to do with you now? 1062 01:06:07,220 --> 01:06:10,310 That's, that's a hypothetical on, on, you're not omnipotent 1063 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:12,500 and you're not immortal. 1064 01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:15,870 So, why, why does that even enter your, your 1065 01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:20,710 that doesn't require omnipotence even it's just immortal and indestructible. 1066 01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:23,360 So, so the, the point is that the scarcity 1067 01:06:23,370 --> 01:06:24,610 you're not either of those. 1068 01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:26,040 Why are you bringing that up? 1069 01:06:26,050 --> 01:06:29,610 I'm asking about why you value time. 1070 01:06:29,650 --> 01:06:30,700 can I answer Jimmy? 1071 01:06:30,700 --> 01:06:30,860 I'm, 1072 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,158 I'm saying that the finiteness of my life is what, what makes me think 1073 01:06:35,158 --> 01:06:39,448 it's valuable, just as the finiteness of Bitcoin is what makes me think 1074 01:06:39,448 --> 01:06:43,448 that it has value to others, like, uh, there's a connection there. 1075 01:06:43,808 --> 01:06:47,208 So, so, but to your point about the other stuff is that. 1076 01:06:47,433 --> 01:06:53,113 Uh, I view statism and communism and all of these brutal things as just the 1077 01:06:53,113 --> 01:06:56,323 next iteration of organized religion. 1078 01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:58,043 They're, they're, they're the same thing. 1079 01:06:58,053 --> 01:06:59,613 They're arguably even worse. 1080 01:06:59,653 --> 01:07:03,133 I've, I've changed my views on that since finding Bitcoin, by the way. 1081 01:07:03,618 --> 01:07:07,928 And I now view statism as the worst form of religion yet, since it's 1082 01:07:07,928 --> 01:07:09,518 more intrusive than the others. 1083 01:07:09,568 --> 01:07:14,868 And it's, it's arguably better for the flock to believe in a fictitious guy in 1084 01:07:14,868 --> 01:07:17,448 the sky than to believe in Kim Jong un. 1085 01:07:17,508 --> 01:07:20,028 I understand that, that aspect of it. 1086 01:07:20,498 --> 01:07:24,638 But having said that, fiat money requires belief. 1087 01:07:25,503 --> 01:07:28,033 And it's scarce in that they're scarce. 1088 01:07:28,033 --> 01:07:32,243 They require you to appeal to some form of authority. 1089 01:07:32,853 --> 01:07:36,273 Bitcoin has none of that since everything in it is verifiable. 1090 01:07:36,273 --> 01:07:41,473 You can, you can look everything up, uh, and you can check for yourself 1091 01:07:41,513 --> 01:07:44,563 that people are actually doing what they're saying they're doing. 1092 01:07:44,913 --> 01:07:49,583 So that's why I view it as financial atheism and not, uh, it's the 1093 01:07:49,623 --> 01:07:53,353 only type of money we've ever had that doesn't require belief. 1094 01:07:54,098 --> 01:07:54,858 You know what I mean? 1095 01:07:55,578 --> 01:08:01,248 Like, uh, even the gold monger could say that the, oh, you have to buy this gold 1096 01:08:01,248 --> 01:08:03,628 for coin from me because gold is scarce. 1097 01:08:03,948 --> 01:08:08,308 And you, there was no way of verifying that gold was actually scarce except 1098 01:08:08,328 --> 01:08:10,168 going and trying to dig for it yourself. 1099 01:08:10,248 --> 01:08:15,258 So Bitcoin, you, doesn't require any type of belief. 1100 01:08:15,278 --> 01:08:18,608 And that's why I think it maps on so well to atheism. 1101 01:08:18,998 --> 01:08:22,278 And, but the beauty of this is that. 1102 01:08:23,253 --> 01:08:26,853 We have these differences of opinion here, and it's still, 1103 01:08:27,273 --> 01:08:30,043 both worldviews map onto Bitcoin. 1104 01:08:30,043 --> 01:08:33,263 That's what I find fascinating, and so does a plethora of 1105 01:08:33,263 --> 01:08:36,213 other worldviews as well. 1106 01:08:36,823 --> 01:08:37,703 Okay, done with the 1107 01:08:37,718 --> 01:08:44,468 I think respecting property rights is something that's part of natural law. 1108 01:08:45,538 --> 01:08:51,508 Uh, like, uh, for, for me, when, when, when you say like, uh, fiat is organized 1109 01:08:51,508 --> 01:08:57,658 religion, I, I mean, I, I think Statism is not organized religion at all. 1110 01:08:57,658 --> 01:08:59,788 It's, it's just somebody, 1111 01:09:00,543 --> 01:09:01,303 It's a cult. 1112 01:09:01,413 --> 01:09:04,648 somebody just sort of controlling things for everybody else. 1113 01:09:04,648 --> 01:09:04,888 There's. 1114 01:09:05,593 --> 01:09:07,123 Religious aspect to it. 1115 01:09:07,123 --> 01:09:10,753 There's no, you know, like afterlife or anything like that, . It's 1116 01:09:10,753 --> 01:09:13,363 just we control you and that's it. 1117 01:09:13,363 --> 01:09:13,633 Right? 1118 01:09:13,633 --> 01:09:15,103 Like it's, and most 1119 01:09:15,133 --> 01:09:17,053 does the dollar bill say, in God we trust? 1120 01:09:17,423 --> 01:09:18,613 And the bitcoin does not. 1121 01:09:19,053 --> 01:09:23,163 I mean, like that, that's, I, I don't know who, who put that there, 1122 01:09:23,163 --> 01:09:25,263 but that, that the whole idea. 1123 01:09:26,418 --> 01:09:30,538 The idea of fiat money was always, here, we get to make the 1124 01:09:30,538 --> 01:09:31,878 rules because we are in power. 1125 01:09:31,878 --> 01:09:37,278 It's very Nietzschean in that regard, uh, in, in that the people that 1126 01:09:37,278 --> 01:09:40,998 make, uh, that create the rules, the ones in power get to, get to 1127 01:09:41,178 --> 01:09:42,808 set the rules for everybody else. 1128 01:09:42,958 --> 01:09:48,348 And, in a sense it, it, uh, it denies sort of like individual 1129 01:09:48,358 --> 01:09:53,798 dignity, um, and that is of course, a Christian concept, the idea that 1130 01:09:53,858 --> 01:09:55,438 people have value and it, it, it... 1131 01:09:55,693 --> 01:10:01,163 It wasn't sort of like, uh, something that most people even 1132 01:10:01,173 --> 01:10:06,573 heard of or thought legitimate until Christianity came into being. 1133 01:10:06,583 --> 01:10:11,193 Like, before that it was, you know, throw, like, you're only as 1134 01:10:11,193 --> 01:10:15,473 valuable as you are useful to the community that you're in and so on. 1135 01:10:15,473 --> 01:10:21,493 So, like, this idea that individuals have this importance 1136 01:10:21,533 --> 01:10:24,468 and that Their time is valuable. 1137 01:10:25,278 --> 01:10:28,448 It requires, I think, a Christian worldview. 1138 01:10:28,488 --> 01:10:33,908 I think it requires this concept of human dignity, which I don't think you 1139 01:10:33,908 --> 01:10:36,138 can derive from any form of atheism. 1140 01:10:36,148 --> 01:10:40,658 You can't say, okay, people are intrinsically valuable. 1141 01:10:41,078 --> 01:10:41,618 Unless... 1142 01:10:42,743 --> 01:10:48,463 There, I mean, like, you, you need some reason for that and it's, uh, it's, 1143 01:10:48,483 --> 01:10:54,823 it's a little bit taken as like an axiom for a lot of, uh, a lot of, I guess, 1144 01:10:54,873 --> 01:11:00,603 atheists on the left as far as I can tell, but it's, it comes from a Christian 1145 01:11:00,603 --> 01:11:06,203 worldview and I don't know how you get that without, you know, some, uh, Imago 1146 01:11:06,203 --> 01:11:12,353 Dei, some, uh, some, uh, idea that, that there is value in human beings. 1147 01:11:12,745 --> 01:11:14,315 I don't really see why you need one. 1148 01:11:14,615 --> 01:11:19,245 You can just observe the world around you, and I think you find empathy in 1149 01:11:19,405 --> 01:11:25,209 just, like, Empathy is inherent within us, whether we live in a place that 1150 01:11:25,299 --> 01:11:27,879 even has Christianity or not, I'm sure. 1151 01:11:28,544 --> 01:11:35,534 You know, Eskimos have, uh, uh, or Inuit, so they call them these days, right, and 1152 01:11:35,534 --> 01:11:41,084 not Eskimos, that's a, that's one of those taboo words, but, uh, if, what I'm saying, 1153 01:11:41,104 --> 01:11:47,874 like, a, a tribe of human beings on a deserted, on an island that has never seen 1154 01:11:48,284 --> 01:11:53,604 any Christian ever, you know, a tribe that can also have a morality and they can also 1155 01:11:53,604 --> 01:11:57,964 have an inherent empathy for one another. 1156 01:11:58,629 --> 01:11:59,729 they had a very different morality. 1157 01:12:00,049 --> 01:12:03,909 It was a morality that didn't value specific individuals 1158 01:12:03,909 --> 01:12:05,109 just for being people. 1159 01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:08,899 So, for example, like, ancient Sparta, ancient Sparta. 1160 01:12:08,939 --> 01:12:14,119 They, they, if a baby had a defect, they let them die, right? 1161 01:12:14,129 --> 01:12:15,639 Like, they killed them, more or less. 1162 01:12:16,109 --> 01:12:17,859 Like, that was a very common thing. 1163 01:12:18,209 --> 01:12:19,739 You know, child sacrifice. 1164 01:12:20,164 --> 01:12:20,774 Very common. 1165 01:12:23,324 --> 01:12:27,784 The concept of human dignity, of individuals being worth something, and 1166 01:12:27,784 --> 01:12:32,824 I think if I heard you correctly before, what you were saying is human time is 1167 01:12:32,824 --> 01:12:39,434 valuable, and for each individual, I think in that is this assumption that people are 1168 01:12:39,434 --> 01:12:46,344 valuable and as I'm saying like it's very I don't know of an atheist formulation 1169 01:12:46,364 --> 01:12:50,634 that can derive that because once again you're trying to go from is to ought 1170 01:12:51,044 --> 01:12:55,384 What's the christian, uh, how does a christian go from, uh, an ought 1171 01:12:55,394 --> 01:12:57,214 to an is then, or an is to an 1172 01:12:57,244 --> 01:13:00,794 well I mean you know you don't need to because you have the existence 1173 01:13:00,794 --> 01:13:05,114 of God and if you believe in an all powerful being then of course he 1174 01:13:05,114 --> 01:13:09,954 he can he he can set morality and and that's that's what we believe. 1175 01:13:10,186 --> 01:13:13,106 Each person is, uh, uh, is made in the image of God and 1176 01:13:13,106 --> 01:13:14,986 therefore each person is valuable. 1177 01:13:15,356 --> 01:13:19,656 And like that, that's, that's a Christian, it's a very specifically Christian thing. 1178 01:13:20,006 --> 01:13:23,766 I, I want you to understand how different it, it was from everything 1179 01:13:23,766 --> 01:13:29,406 that came before because people were sacrificed and people were thrown away. 1180 01:13:29,406 --> 01:13:33,346 People were enslaved and things like that without any recourse. 1181 01:13:33,456 --> 01:13:36,316 Uh, and, and part of it was because they thought... 1182 01:13:36,876 --> 01:13:42,446 Human beings, like, are almost like property, um, but, you know, the, the, 1183 01:13:42,456 --> 01:13:48,526 this idea that you, you know, people are valuable or that they, they have, um, 1184 01:13:48,536 --> 01:13:52,996 you know, their time is valuable has to come from some basis and I, I'm not sure 1185 01:13:53,006 --> 01:13:54,826 you, you have that in your formulation. 1186 01:13:55,036 --> 01:13:59,736 human race survived for hundreds of thousands and even millions 1187 01:13:59,736 --> 01:14:05,246 of years without Christianity, before, before Christianity even 1188 01:14:05,486 --> 01:14:06,186 Yeah, and, 1189 01:14:06,266 --> 01:14:09,326 and do you think that was all, all brutal? 1190 01:14:09,766 --> 01:14:10,426 I don't think so. 1191 01:14:10,426 --> 01:14:12,576 I think people took great care of one another and 1192 01:14:12,876 --> 01:14:16,676 mean, I, we don't, we don't really know, but a lot of it was very brutal. 1193 01:14:17,666 --> 01:14:18,496 yeah, very brutal. 1194 01:14:18,526 --> 01:14:20,896 But so was a lot of Christian history as well. 1195 01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:22,646 I mean, the Crusades and, you 1196 01:14:22,811 --> 01:14:23,761 no, I'm just 1197 01:14:23,946 --> 01:14:27,306 conquering of the Americas was very, very brutal. 1198 01:14:27,451 --> 01:14:30,491 Yeah, yeah, but like Knut, you're bringing up other stuff. 1199 01:14:30,511 --> 01:14:35,421 I'm asking you where your formulation that individual time is valuable 1200 01:14:35,901 --> 01:14:37,531 requires, like, comes from. 1201 01:14:37,531 --> 01:14:42,211 Because if it, if it is valuable, if time is valuable to each, every 1202 01:14:42,211 --> 01:14:47,681 individual's time is valuable, you need to have some concept of individual value. 1203 01:14:48,161 --> 01:14:53,151 And under atheism, Like, how do you get to the point where individuals are valuable? 1204 01:14:53,393 --> 01:14:57,053 Let me, let me to really try, really try to answer that question. 1205 01:14:57,653 --> 01:15:03,633 Like, I would say that a human lifetime is a scarce resource. 1206 01:15:04,033 --> 01:15:07,853 And like other scarce resources, there's supply and demand for it. 1207 01:15:08,153 --> 01:15:11,143 So others have demand for your labor, for instance. 1208 01:15:11,593 --> 01:15:18,483 Uh, so, so your, your time is valuable to other human beings because you can provide 1209 01:15:18,483 --> 01:15:20,843 them with services during that lifetime. 1210 01:15:21,133 --> 01:15:22,603 You can provide value to them. 1211 01:15:22,803 --> 01:15:26,043 Like, Jimmy, you're valuable to me right now, and I hope I'm valuable 1212 01:15:26,043 --> 01:15:28,943 to you because we're having this conversation with one another. 1213 01:15:29,153 --> 01:15:34,098 We're exchanging My life for your life and vice versa right now, we're, we're, 1214 01:15:34,108 --> 01:15:39,858 we're expending, we're spending our time with one another, literally spending 1215 01:15:39,858 --> 01:15:41,878 it because we're not getting it back. 1216 01:15:42,128 --> 01:15:45,488 So to me, it's just like any other good or service in the world. 1217 01:15:45,508 --> 01:15:49,068 It's, it's valuable because it's scarce and there's a demand for it. 1218 01:15:49,808 --> 01:15:53,768 And that's what makes a human life valuable, literally. 1219 01:15:54,105 --> 01:15:58,895 Alright, and that's a very utilitarian sort of conception, and I, I think, 1220 01:15:58,905 --> 01:16:02,605 like, the ancient Spartans would have agreed with you, well, there, there's 1221 01:16:02,605 --> 01:16:08,415 this baby that is horribly deformed, um, and, you know, it, it isn't going 1222 01:16:08,415 --> 01:16:10,735 to be able to walk, uh, or anything. 1223 01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:15,520 Uh, and their, their time is unvaluable because they are not going to 1224 01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,600 provide any good or service to us. 1225 01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:23,090 Therefore, we're going to let it freeze out in, uh, in the, you know, 1226 01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:27,060 it, you know, and like, just not have it be a part of our community. 1227 01:16:27,070 --> 01:16:30,130 And under your formulation, that would be correct. 1228 01:16:30,410 --> 01:16:32,390 I mean, and that's fine. 1229 01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:36,910 If you, if you have that morality, I'm not going to say that that's illegitimate. 1230 01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,360 But I'm just saying, like, The Christian response would be, 1231 01:16:40,370 --> 01:16:41,870 that baby is still valuable. 1232 01:16:42,180 --> 01:16:46,720 Yes, and uh, I think that I differ from Christians sometimes there, would you 1233 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,740 let a brain dead baby stay alive for 10 years without any, any functioning 1234 01:16:52,750 --> 01:16:54,950 brain, any functioning conscious? 1235 01:16:55,410 --> 01:16:57,880 Yes, they're the image of God. 1236 01:16:58,020 --> 01:16:59,800 Yes, absolutely. 1237 01:17:00,380 --> 01:17:05,550 Alright, I think we differ there then, and I think you're, I think I'm a brutal 1238 01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:12,040 murderer for doing so, but I think the, the, the, the case for, for uh, for 1239 01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:17,240 pulling the plug on that machine that is artificially keeping that Vegetable alive. 1240 01:17:17,630 --> 01:17:20,590 It's, there's a moral case for, to be made for that. 1241 01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:26,180 If you just have this Christian, every, if every, every life is equal, 1242 01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:27,010 right? 1243 01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:30,880 Like somebody that is a burden to a lot of people and so on. 1244 01:17:31,480 --> 01:17:35,625 But I mean, like But, but there's like somebody that's homeless that's like 1245 01:17:35,625 --> 01:17:40,365 mentally ill and not able to do it, hold it, hold down any job or whatever. 1246 01:17:40,725 --> 01:17:46,465 Like, the lines get a lot grayer, Knut, and if you don't have this conception 1247 01:17:46,465 --> 01:17:50,665 that individuals are valuable for their own sake, then you very quickly 1248 01:17:50,685 --> 01:17:55,315 get into very dark places, like morally speaking, you know what I 1249 01:17:55,460 --> 01:17:59,020 well I do, but I, I think your argument gets you into the Superman 1250 01:17:59,020 --> 01:18:02,990 dilemma that you took up before again, because like, now, now, now you're 1251 01:18:02,990 --> 01:18:07,110 saying that each and every life on earth should be respected equally. 1252 01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:11,210 Therefore, it becomes your calling to go and save everyone then. 1253 01:18:11,850 --> 01:18:16,610 It's like, is that even, uh, is that even a worldview that 1254 01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:19,990 is productive for that cause? 1255 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:25,210 I don't know, like, why aren't you a doctor and running around saving 1256 01:18:25,375 --> 01:18:26,385 was a waste? 1257 01:18:26,475 --> 01:18:29,095 I mean, she, she went into Calcutta and... 1258 01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:34,010 Took, uh, took, took on, like, babies that, like, nobody wanted 1259 01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:35,430 and helped raise them and stuff like 1260 01:18:35,500 --> 01:18:40,700 Only if, only if they said that, uh, only if they accepted God. 1261 01:18:41,130 --> 01:18:44,010 If they didn't accept the rules that she set for them, she 1262 01:18:44,010 --> 01:18:45,380 was fucking brutal to them. 1263 01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,740 She was not a good human being in my opinion, at all. 1264 01:18:49,300 --> 01:18:51,460 She took money from the horrible dictators. 1265 01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:52,960 one wanted. 1266 01:18:53,170 --> 01:18:55,050 Like, these were people that no one 1267 01:18:55,130 --> 01:18:57,850 but she only helped them if they accepted God. 1268 01:18:58,060 --> 01:19:00,440 So if they adopted what she 1269 01:19:00,570 --> 01:19:03,629 I mean, like, the thing is, like, she, she, she... 1270 01:19:04,220 --> 01:19:07,850 I mean, the thing is, Knut, you're, you're, you're, you're 1271 01:19:07,850 --> 01:19:10,340 then in a worse position because you wouldn't help them at all. 1272 01:19:11,570 --> 01:19:14,980 No, I would, I would absolutely help them if I could. 1273 01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,450 And I, if I think, if I thought that that was 1274 01:19:17,450 --> 01:19:19,810 So aren't you in the same Superman dilemma? 1275 01:19:19,810 --> 01:19:22,820 I mean, like, you're, you're making it sound like it's a Christian problem, but 1276 01:19:22,820 --> 01:19:24,150 you, you just said you would help them. 1277 01:19:24,685 --> 01:19:30,235 I think you and I have found the same solution to that Superman dilemma, not 1278 01:19:30,245 --> 01:19:34,195 that none of, I don't think neither you or I, nor I think that we're Superman, 1279 01:19:34,495 --> 01:19:39,835 but I think we found, uh, spending our time explaining to Bitcoin to people 1280 01:19:39,885 --> 01:19:44,205 is the best thing we can do for the most, the biggest amount of people. 1281 01:19:44,205 --> 01:19:46,485 Like, that's, that's the best way we can help it. 1282 01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,090 We can leave this planet a little better than we came into it. 1283 01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:52,460 That's, that's my goal with this anyway. 1284 01:19:52,460 --> 01:19:55,460 To, to, to, to, to make the world a better place. 1285 01:19:55,490 --> 01:19:59,810 Uh, uh, sounds pretentious, but, but I think you have that goal as well. 1286 01:19:59,815 --> 01:19:59,990 And I 1287 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:01,900 does better even mean for you though? 1288 01:20:01,980 --> 01:20:04,550 Like, uh, like, cause in a sense, like. 1289 01:20:05,190 --> 01:20:10,710 Is it, is it the optimization of human life or utility that other people find? 1290 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:15,850 Or, I mean, because I have trouble understanding what the end goal is when 1291 01:20:16,660 --> 01:20:21,180 like, it's, it's hard for me to see what you see as good and what you see as bad. 1292 01:20:21,626 --> 01:20:26,156 Well, I see violence as bad, and, uh, communication as good. 1293 01:20:26,246 --> 01:20:29,696 Like it's the, it's back to the hopper argumentation for, 1294 01:20:29,726 --> 01:20:31,466 uh, argument for argumentation. 1295 01:20:31,466 --> 01:20:37,200 Again, like The, the more the freer the market, the sounder the money, the, the, 1296 01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:40,290 the fewer resources get misallocated. 1297 01:20:40,290 --> 01:20:41,430 I know we agree on that. 1298 01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:46,760 And, uh, by misallocation we, we mean that they're not put in use 1299 01:20:46,820 --> 01:20:51,440 for, for individuals to reach their individual ends and goals. 1300 01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:56,520 Uh, they're the a a a a select few get to choose all that. 1301 01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,420 And, and in doing so, they also ruin things for themselves, but they don't know 1302 01:21:00,420 --> 01:21:03,040 it because they don't know the power of the free market and so on and so forth. 1303 01:21:04,017 --> 01:21:11,607 it's, it's easy to be good without, without having to have, um, uh, like, 1304 01:21:11,637 --> 01:21:15,787 I don't see why a belief in a god would necessarily change that dilemma. 1305 01:21:16,687 --> 01:21:18,937 Um, I don't see why, why it would be. 1306 01:21:19,162 --> 01:21:20,772 might not in all God. 1307 01:21:20,792 --> 01:21:26,052 I know if you believe in my God that the dilemma is solved very easily, but 1308 01:21:26,582 --> 01:21:34,012 I, but the, the, the main thing is that it's, uh, under what, and to go back to 1309 01:21:34,012 --> 01:21:39,157 sort of the original argument with fiat money, what you had is people making 1310 01:21:39,157 --> 01:21:44,597 the rules instead of following the rules that I think are set by natural law. 1311 01:21:44,617 --> 01:21:50,187 And the basis of natural law, I think, requires some sort of moral order. 1312 01:21:50,217 --> 01:21:55,297 And, uh, and a moral order under an atheist view is very difficult to come up 1313 01:21:55,367 --> 01:21:58,057 just like this is the is to ought thing. 1314 01:21:59,032 --> 01:22:00,362 Knut, I want to take this one. 1315 01:22:00,362 --> 01:22:01,142 I want to take this one. 1316 01:22:01,142 --> 01:22:01,412 Okay. 1317 01:22:01,452 --> 01:22:01,782 Okay. 1318 01:22:02,872 --> 01:22:09,222 I, I, I want to, to, because I think I'm seeing here the real clash that, 1319 01:22:09,362 --> 01:22:13,222 that Jimmy, I think not to put words in your mouth, but I think you are making 1320 01:22:13,222 --> 01:22:14,592 an assertion, something about that. 1321 01:22:15,277 --> 01:22:18,447 Without a belief in the Christian God, you cannot have the 1322 01:22:18,477 --> 01:22:20,487 exact same level of morality. 1323 01:22:20,977 --> 01:22:25,327 My assertion is that meaning is still possible, and finding meaning 1324 01:22:26,207 --> 01:22:30,877 through whichever means of morality, justification, learning it, learning it 1325 01:22:30,877 --> 01:22:33,007 through culture, learning it through self. 1326 01:22:33,267 --> 01:22:38,257 I would say that many people in the Bitcoin community who are not Christians, 1327 01:22:38,307 --> 01:22:43,047 who have found Bitcoin and improved themselves, have Learned to have some 1328 01:22:43,047 --> 01:22:47,827 kind of meaning, whether it's through Bitcoin or Bitcoin adjacent things. 1329 01:22:48,127 --> 01:22:52,627 And so I would put you both in the camp of meaning having people and 1330 01:22:52,627 --> 01:22:57,177 it's the absence of meaning that fiat comes from in my view, because 1331 01:22:57,207 --> 01:22:58,807 that's the Nietzschean thing, right? 1332 01:22:59,297 --> 01:23:01,257 We, uh, God is dead and we have killed him. 1333 01:23:01,257 --> 01:23:03,967 It's the absence of meeting, not specifically the absence 1334 01:23:03,967 --> 01:23:05,607 of the Christian God, right? 1335 01:23:05,816 --> 01:23:08,896 Well, it's, it's not just the absence of meaning, but it's, it's 1336 01:23:08,896 --> 01:23:10,636 the absence of traditional morality. 1337 01:23:10,666 --> 01:23:15,646 So, A lot of the morality that we take for granted, almost, comes 1338 01:23:15,646 --> 01:23:17,946 from a very Christian worldview. 1339 01:23:18,036 --> 01:23:22,796 I think I've made that case with, uh, you know, like, sort of babies and, uh, 1340 01:23:22,816 --> 01:23:28,676 that, like, in almost every other culture before Christianity, this was the norm 1341 01:23:28,716 --> 01:23:35,821 to, uh, To, like, treat people almost like property in some ways, or it, uh, based on 1342 01:23:35,821 --> 01:23:41,811 utilitarian, uh, calculations or something like that, I, I, I find that abhorrent, I 1343 01:23:41,841 --> 01:23:47,111 think most people do, to, like, just sort of callously set aside somebody because 1344 01:23:47,121 --> 01:23:51,651 they're no longer useful to society, that, I mean, that, that would be Horrible. 1345 01:23:51,751 --> 01:23:53,501 I, I, I think most people agree with that. 1346 01:23:53,901 --> 01:24:00,151 I'm, I'm just, uh, I'm asserting that natural law, and it's not about like 1347 01:24:00,181 --> 01:24:05,491 alignment with Christianity or whatever, that natural law, at the very least, 1348 01:24:06,021 --> 01:24:08,311 requires some sort of moral order. 1349 01:24:08,911 --> 01:24:11,441 Now, as a Christian, I would say that that's the law 1350 01:24:11,461 --> 01:24:13,251 written on our hearts by God. 1351 01:24:13,901 --> 01:24:18,121 Uh, but you know, for, for, for an atheist, you have, you have 1352 01:24:18,121 --> 01:24:20,001 to come up with why that's true. 1353 01:24:20,441 --> 01:24:24,236 Like why, why Uh, you know, like committing violence 1354 01:24:24,266 --> 01:24:26,296 against somebody else is bad. 1355 01:24:26,296 --> 01:24:30,556 And, and, you know, Knut, I think, uh, to your credit, the, the formulations you've 1356 01:24:30,556 --> 01:24:36,486 come up with are because it's more useful, but I would submit to you that utilitarian 1357 01:24:36,486 --> 01:24:38,746 arguments almost always lead to. 1358 01:24:39,171 --> 01:24:44,691 A very bad philosophical place because you get into the trolley dilemma and 1359 01:24:44,691 --> 01:24:48,801 stuff like that where you're, you know, harvesting a fat man's organs so 1360 01:24:48,801 --> 01:24:52,631 you can, you can go and uh, save five people or something, you know, like, 1361 01:24:52,752 --> 01:24:54,962 Okay, no, no, no. 1362 01:24:55,292 --> 01:25:00,212 Where I'm coming from, Jimmy, is that the very notion of a God and these, 1363 01:25:00,292 --> 01:25:06,042 uh, these moral guidelines that you talk about, I believe that they came 1364 01:25:06,052 --> 01:25:08,322 from a guy trying to do just that. 1365 01:25:08,662 --> 01:25:12,512 Trying to find a way to rationalize that, and he wrote this story 1366 01:25:12,512 --> 01:25:14,032 down, and that's how he did that. 1367 01:25:14,252 --> 01:25:18,202 So I think man preceded God, and that's where we differ, because I think 1368 01:25:18,202 --> 01:25:19,552 this is a story we tell ourselves. 1369 01:25:19,887 --> 01:25:24,547 but, but by saying that you're saying the morals existed before the guy, right? 1370 01:25:25,007 --> 01:25:25,587 So where did the 1371 01:25:25,612 --> 01:25:26,592 Yeah, yeah. 1372 01:25:27,402 --> 01:25:32,772 Well, not, I think we evolved the morals because our group survivability 1373 01:25:32,812 --> 01:25:36,312 benefited from us having that moral, that kind of moral standard. 1374 01:25:36,362 --> 01:25:39,632 And that includes saving the baby that's deformed. 1375 01:25:40,062 --> 01:25:45,692 That, that level of empathy Uh, enables trust in the rest of the group. 1376 01:25:45,712 --> 01:25:47,782 You know that you're not going to be left out. 1377 01:25:47,862 --> 01:25:50,312 So you know that you're not going to get ostracized and that's 1378 01:25:50,362 --> 01:25:52,132 good for the group survival. 1379 01:25:52,352 --> 01:25:57,202 It's not that, you know, evolutionary theory is not just, it's not 1380 01:25:57,202 --> 01:25:59,322 just people killing one another. 1381 01:25:59,332 --> 01:26:01,632 It's, it's a collaboration as well. 1382 01:26:02,497 --> 01:26:06,207 Well, Knut, I think I just showed with the example of Sparta, for 1383 01:26:06,207 --> 01:26:10,867 example, that that was exactly the opposite of what required them to 1384 01:26:10,952 --> 01:26:12,273 That's That's one, that's one example. 1385 01:26:12,273 --> 01:26:14,333 You can also, you can also use counterexamples. 1386 01:26:14,393 --> 01:26:18,263 Christian, you can't say that throughout the entire life of 1387 01:26:18,263 --> 01:26:22,213 Christianity that everyone had the prosperity necessary to not have to 1388 01:26:22,213 --> 01:26:24,593 make a decision like that, right? 1389 01:26:24,763 --> 01:26:26,663 I think scarcity is the real problem there. 1390 01:26:26,933 --> 01:26:30,983 These so called utilitarian problems come in when there is such 1391 01:26:30,983 --> 01:26:33,743 a degree of scarcity that those decisions actually have to be made. 1392 01:26:33,773 --> 01:26:38,828 And, and I would assert that A group of people that doesn't actually make these 1393 01:26:38,828 --> 01:26:41,218 decisions correctly will not survive. 1394 01:26:41,228 --> 01:26:46,108 If, if the tribe decides not to actually make some pragmatic decisions 1395 01:26:46,108 --> 01:26:49,638 about who gets to eat, the whole tribe might not survive the winter. 1396 01:26:49,698 --> 01:26:53,298 And that's terrible, and I don't think that's unique to Christianity. 1397 01:26:55,698 --> 01:27:01,208 But your argument is that it is somehow a more evolutionary fit for survival, right? 1398 01:27:01,352 --> 01:27:06,132 a more important point to me than the notion of God itself, because 1399 01:27:06,132 --> 01:27:10,702 I really don't care what people personally, about personal belief. 1400 01:27:10,902 --> 01:27:14,442 What bothers me is organized religion, and this notion that, 1401 01:27:14,732 --> 01:27:18,282 you know, to me, the Pope is just another version of a central bank. 1402 01:27:18,372 --> 01:27:22,372 It's a guy that says that he is in contact with God, and that he 1403 01:27:22,392 --> 01:27:25,462 sets rules for people, and whatever he says, people get influenced. 1404 01:27:25,612 --> 01:27:26,882 by that and they do whatever. 1405 01:27:27,132 --> 01:27:30,052 And now he's going around waving rainbow flags and stuff. 1406 01:27:30,052 --> 01:27:35,852 So I, I, I think the whole, the, the appeal to authority is the problem, 1407 01:27:36,167 --> 01:27:38,987 that's, uh, believe it or not, that's actually a ver, 1408 01:27:39,047 --> 01:27:41,117 fairly modern, um, conception. 1409 01:27:41,117 --> 01:27:44,657 The infallibility of the Pope was a doctrine that was adopted 1410 01:27:44,657 --> 01:27:47,437 around in, in the 19th century. 1411 01:27:47,437 --> 01:27:51,757 So it's a, it's a, like most of the history of Christianity does 1412 01:27:51,762 --> 01:27:56,847 not have this particularly like omnipotent authoritarian pope. 1413 01:27:56,967 --> 01:28:02,027 So that, that Lord Acton quote at power corrupts absolutely. 1414 01:28:02,642 --> 01:28:06,742 Absolute Power, or Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely. 1415 01:28:07,052 --> 01:28:11,452 He was, he was a Catholic talking about the Pope, about that exact issue. 1416 01:28:11,452 --> 01:28:15,682 So, it's a fairly recent phenomenon, and I, I believe it's, it's sort 1417 01:28:15,682 --> 01:28:20,722 of a result of, I honestly, Marxist influence, but yeah, and that 1418 01:28:20,722 --> 01:28:22,732 Catholic social teaching, but yeah. 1419 01:28:23,232 --> 01:28:24,982 but yeah, yes, we do. 1420 01:28:25,482 --> 01:28:29,482 And I think that that's, to me, the problem becomes then like. 1421 01:28:30,142 --> 01:28:35,372 I respect, because of this, I respect you as a Christian way more than I 1422 01:28:35,772 --> 01:28:41,762 respect your average Pope fan, you know, because there are so many different 1423 01:28:41,842 --> 01:28:46,522 definitions of the word Christianity, as we've explored today, there are 1424 01:28:46,522 --> 01:28:52,067 even different definitions of the The, the different definitions of the word 1425 01:28:52,067 --> 01:28:58,087 atheist as well, and, uh, the like, there, the, this is so nuanced and I 1426 01:28:58,087 --> 01:29:00,157 think it has to do with semantics a lot. 1427 01:29:00,547 --> 01:29:05,107 Uh, but the, the point I, I, I wouldn't want you to think of me as someone that 1428 01:29:05,112 --> 01:29:11,017 hates the notion of God, because that's not representative of what I think at all. 1429 01:29:11,347 --> 01:29:14,047 I, I hate appeals to authority. 1430 01:29:14,047 --> 01:29:17,377 That's like, I think people should think for themselves. 1431 01:29:17,942 --> 01:29:23,842 And, uh, and be able to do so to as large an extent as possible because, 1432 01:29:23,992 --> 01:29:28,572 you know, I'm a, well, freedom maximalist for lack of a better word. 1433 01:29:28,922 --> 01:29:33,312 But Knut, Knut, I'm going to say that you, you appeal to authority too, but 1434 01:29:33,312 --> 01:29:38,452 you appeal to some sort of evolutionary side trick on, on, on the moral laws, 1435 01:29:38,932 --> 01:29:43,922 saying they evolved and I don't know exactly how they evolved or why, but 1436 01:29:44,242 --> 01:29:50,492 they exist because of this, this, uh, you know, evolutionary group 1437 01:29:50,492 --> 01:29:55,297 dynamic or whatever it is, uh, I mean that, that's a form of authority. 1438 01:29:55,297 --> 01:30:01,137 It's, it's asserting something that you can't prove exists, that, that, 1439 01:30:01,257 --> 01:30:03,297 like this moral law came into being, 1440 01:30:03,832 --> 01:30:05,612 No, but neither can you, Jimmy. 1441 01:30:05,702 --> 01:30:06,612 Neither can you. 1442 01:30:06,622 --> 01:30:07,572 You can't prove it 1443 01:30:07,842 --> 01:30:10,602 neither of us can, but that's the point, right? 1444 01:30:10,602 --> 01:30:16,332 Is that if you're going to say I reject all authority ever, then you would 1445 01:30:16,332 --> 01:30:17,782 have to reject your own argument. 1446 01:30:18,113 --> 01:30:23,753 Yeah, I, I guess, uh, I, I, I, I want to minimize, uh, uh, appeals to 1447 01:30:23,753 --> 01:30:27,773 authority just as I want to minimize the size of government or the size of the 1448 01:30:27,773 --> 01:30:30,793 church or whatever, like the, the po. 1449 01:30:30,883 --> 01:30:36,653 But, uh, another point that is important to make is that a belief in evolutionary 1450 01:30:36,653 --> 01:30:39,283 theory has nothing to do with atheism. 1451 01:30:39,863 --> 01:30:43,563 A lot of atheists buy the evolutionary theory, but that's 1452 01:30:43,563 --> 01:30:44,983 not what the word atheist means. 1453 01:30:45,023 --> 01:30:50,433 The atheism just means the rejection of theistic ideas. 1454 01:30:51,508 --> 01:30:53,268 yeah, and I kind of get that. 1455 01:30:53,908 --> 01:30:59,358 I'm just responding to what you asserted before that the moral law 1456 01:30:59,408 --> 01:31:03,978 that you, uh, that you follow more or less, it comes from some group 1457 01:31:03,978 --> 01:31:08,768 dynamic that you can't identify or figure out how it came into being. 1458 01:31:09,093 --> 01:31:12,903 You just assert that it has, and in a sense, that's, that's a form of authority. 1459 01:31:13,098 --> 01:31:15,178 you assert that it came from God. 1460 01:31:15,338 --> 01:31:20,028 So we have, I'm saying, I'm saying, I don't know, and I, 1461 01:31:20,228 --> 01:31:22,378 I, I'm fine with not knowing. 1462 01:31:22,428 --> 01:31:25,728 I cannot prove that it happened this way or that way or what 1463 01:31:25,768 --> 01:31:27,558 kind of evolution happened. 1464 01:31:27,623 --> 01:31:30,063 then why do you follow it if you don't know where it comes from? 1465 01:31:30,073 --> 01:31:31,133 That's, that's the part 1466 01:31:31,408 --> 01:31:32,728 Well, neither do you. 1467 01:31:32,778 --> 01:31:33,958 That's, that's the thing. 1468 01:31:33,968 --> 01:31:36,358 You're, you have a belief, but you can't prove it. 1469 01:31:37,143 --> 01:31:42,173 I believe in God, but, uh, but for you, you're following a moral law where 1470 01:31:42,173 --> 01:31:45,543 you don't know where it came from, you don't know why, why it exists. 1471 01:31:46,043 --> 01:31:50,303 How is it so hard to, to, for you to accept that I believe in a set of 1472 01:31:50,303 --> 01:31:54,883 principles without believing in a God for me, the, what's the difference there? 1473 01:31:55,808 --> 01:31:58,508 Well, well, then why, why, why do you believe in the principles? 1474 01:31:58,508 --> 01:31:59,018 I guess 1475 01:31:59,053 --> 01:32:01,153 Well, when, why to counter it. 1476 01:32:01,213 --> 01:32:02,293 Why do you believe in God? 1477 01:32:02,293 --> 01:32:02,503 Then? 1478 01:32:02,833 --> 01:32:05,253 Like, why, what, 1479 01:32:05,503 --> 01:32:10,068 I, I, I, I've experienced God, you know that, that, I mean, but I, 1480 01:32:10,073 --> 01:32:12,228 I'm, I'm asking more about you. 1481 01:32:12,258 --> 01:32:15,168 Like you, you have these rules that you follow. 1482 01:32:15,493 --> 01:32:18,013 but this is me interviewing you, you know, not the, 1483 01:32:18,948 --> 01:32:21,288 like that, that, that's the part that's confusing to me. 1484 01:32:22,908 --> 01:32:27,158 And in a sense, that's where it sounds like a little NPC ish, honestly, 1485 01:32:27,158 --> 01:32:32,318 it's like, okay, there are these rules, I'm following them, I don't 1486 01:32:32,548 --> 01:32:38,108 really know why, um, like that's where it's a little confusing. 1487 01:32:38,318 --> 01:32:43,808 I'm saying that neither do you, Jimmy, and I'm just fine with not knowing why I 1488 01:32:43,808 --> 01:32:45,998 don't follow them, like, I don't need to 1489 01:32:46,028 --> 01:32:49,828 I don't know why you follow them, because you do follow certain moral rules, right? 1490 01:32:50,388 --> 01:32:54,698 I do, absolutely, I have high moral standards for myself and for my family. 1491 01:32:55,418 --> 01:32:59,528 but you're saying it came out of some evolutionary thing, and you 1492 01:32:59,788 --> 01:33:04,508 No, I just, I just think that these principles of natural law and first 1493 01:33:04,528 --> 01:33:11,443 principles thinking will do good to a lot of people as opposed to doing bad. 1494 01:33:11,453 --> 01:33:16,773 It will make people's lives more comfortable and easier and filled with 1495 01:33:16,773 --> 01:33:19,923 more meaning and better in general. 1496 01:33:20,263 --> 01:33:24,673 So, to me, it's a no brainer to follow these principles. 1497 01:33:25,013 --> 01:33:27,263 And the more I learn, the more I... 1498 01:33:27,268 --> 01:33:32,138 better, but you, like, this gets back to what's good, what's bad, 1499 01:33:32,148 --> 01:33:35,598 like, it's all kind of like, uh, 1500 01:33:35,793 --> 01:33:38,603 But you all have the same, you have the same problem. 1501 01:33:38,603 --> 01:33:39,323 That's my point. 1502 01:33:39,333 --> 01:33:41,223 Like, saying that there's 1503 01:33:41,233 --> 01:33:41,923 think I do. 1504 01:33:41,923 --> 01:33:43,615 I think I know exactly what good is. 1505 01:33:43,723 --> 01:33:47,403 It's, it's whatever's alignment with God, you know, like they're, 1506 01:33:47,403 --> 01:33:52,603 they're very, very much like easier ways to evaluate things for me. 1507 01:33:52,603 --> 01:33:55,683 Whereas for you, they're all kind of relative and subjective. 1508 01:33:55,683 --> 01:33:58,783 So it's very hard for me to understand what you're saying, 1509 01:33:59,283 --> 01:34:00,873 What if you're wrong then, Jimmy? 1510 01:34:00,873 --> 01:34:04,293 And one of these principles that you follow is completely wrong. 1511 01:34:04,513 --> 01:34:07,413 Like, for instance, that you should turn the other cheek or that you 1512 01:34:07,413 --> 01:34:12,463 should treat everyone equally or treat everyone as they would have treated you. 1513 01:34:12,943 --> 01:34:16,013 Uh, I, you know, people want to be treated differently. 1514 01:34:16,903 --> 01:34:20,833 So, so treating someone like you would have treated yourself is not 1515 01:34:20,853 --> 01:34:26,243 necessarily a good moral principle to live by, in my opinion, and also turning 1516 01:34:26,243 --> 01:34:30,563 the other cheek is not always the correct option in a moral sense to me. 1517 01:34:30,583 --> 01:34:35,933 And in fact, that, that, that was very radical from a moral perspective. 1518 01:34:35,933 --> 01:34:38,293 Nobody else said, turn the other cheek. 1519 01:34:38,323 --> 01:34:38,873 It was, yeah. 1520 01:34:39,408 --> 01:34:40,708 Smite your enemies. 1521 01:34:40,728 --> 01:34:42,358 And that, that was the moral. 1522 01:34:42,628 --> 01:34:47,658 And, and from your perspective, I, I suppose that, uh, from sort of like 1523 01:34:47,658 --> 01:34:51,788 an evolutionary perspective, turning the other cheek would make zero sense. 1524 01:34:51,838 --> 01:34:58,398 Yet, that is very much something that is, uh, a part of the 1525 01:34:58,398 --> 01:35:00,278 morality that we have today. 1526 01:35:00,538 --> 01:35:03,768 And I suspect that you follow a lot of it without even realizing it. 1527 01:35:04,078 --> 01:35:05,088 Recognizing it, right? 1528 01:35:05,098 --> 01:35:10,248 Like, you, you, you try to, um, uh, you know, uh, you, you try to 1529 01:35:10,248 --> 01:35:14,898 treat other people well, even if they might treat you very badly, 1530 01:35:14,988 --> 01:35:17,428 uh, or have treated you badly, um, 1531 01:35:17,743 --> 01:35:18,133 yeah. 1532 01:35:18,593 --> 01:35:18,773 I, 1533 01:35:18,828 --> 01:35:22,518 mean, in a sense, it's a, it's, it's, it's a part of our sort of 1534 01:35:22,518 --> 01:35:25,348 like, uh, societal milieu, right? 1535 01:35:25,348 --> 01:35:28,738 Like, the, the, the moral waters that we swim in are more or 1536 01:35:28,738 --> 01:35:30,248 less Christian in many ways. 1537 01:35:30,268 --> 01:35:34,103 I, I'm just, Asking, I guess, as a Christian, if it's not, if you're 1538 01:35:34,103 --> 01:35:38,103 not Christian and you're swimming in Christian moral waters, well, 1539 01:35:38,263 --> 01:35:40,153 how do you, how do you define 1540 01:35:40,563 --> 01:35:45,303 well you call, you call them Christian moral waters, but I think they pre, I, 1541 01:35:45,403 --> 01:35:49,723 I think they preceded Christianity, and that Christianity sort of hijacked them. 1542 01:35:50,393 --> 01:35:52,883 Like, that's historically inaccurate. 1543 01:35:52,893 --> 01:35:53,053 I 1544 01:35:53,258 --> 01:35:54,528 Let me give you some receipts. 1545 01:35:54,528 --> 01:35:55,528 Let me give you some receipts. 1546 01:35:55,748 --> 01:35:56,818 I'm in with some backup. 1547 01:35:56,818 --> 01:36:01,648 This golden rule, the reciprocity maxim, so to say, there is evidence for 1548 01:36:01,648 --> 01:36:03,888 that in ancient Egypt, ancient India, 1549 01:36:04,043 --> 01:36:08,113 there's Confucius said it before him too, but I mean, that's a particular rule, but 1550 01:36:08,383 --> 01:36:13,083 I'm talking about the dignity of human beings, like, uh, you know, like, uh, 1551 01:36:13,823 --> 01:36:18,293 the, the fact that every human being has value or that, uh, like that, that's a 1552 01:36:18,293 --> 01:36:23,863 completely new concept as of Christianity, because every other culture, it was, 1553 01:36:24,153 --> 01:36:25,873 It was fine to go attack your enemies. 1554 01:36:25,873 --> 01:36:27,133 It was fine to go kill them. 1555 01:36:27,153 --> 01:36:32,153 It was fine to go, um, you know, sacrifice a baby or do whatever. 1556 01:36:32,173 --> 01:36:36,923 Like, it was, it was very new and it was radical for that reason. 1557 01:36:36,993 --> 01:36:41,263 And I would submit to you that that, that is something that is very much a part of 1558 01:36:41,263 --> 01:36:42,823 the moral waters that we're swimming in. 1559 01:36:43,163 --> 01:36:47,363 Um, and it is, it was an innovation, uh, in many ways. 1560 01:36:47,758 --> 01:36:52,528 But, uh, and maybe you can argue that it, it, it was like, it evolved at that 1561 01:36:52,528 --> 01:36:56,288 point or something like that, but I, I don't see any evidence that it was. 1562 01:36:56,813 --> 01:37:01,223 Something that, uh, you know, was taken for granted beforehand. 1563 01:37:01,468 --> 01:37:05,508 We need to, we need to end the debate here, I think, and, and move 1564 01:37:05,518 --> 01:37:09,578 on with the pod, because uh, I, I, I mean, as much as, as much as, uh, 1565 01:37:10,248 --> 01:37:12,558 It's, it's, it's fun, but you know, like I get 1566 01:37:12,588 --> 01:37:12,798 Yeah. 1567 01:37:12,798 --> 01:37:13,098 Yeah. 1568 01:37:13,338 --> 01:37:17,328 As much as I love this, Jimmy, I think for the quality for our listeners, 1569 01:37:17,328 --> 01:37:19,248 we need to, uh, move on there. 1570 01:37:19,428 --> 01:37:23,328 And I'd like, I'd like to do a thing with you that I've, I do with a lot of, 1571 01:37:23,478 --> 01:37:29,858 uh, Christian Bitcoiners I meet, so, so I'm gonna tell you seven uh, statements. 1572 01:37:30,513 --> 01:37:37,603 And, uh, you, you tell me whether you agree or don't agree to them, okay? 1573 01:37:39,073 --> 01:37:39,563 Okay. 1574 01:37:39,943 --> 01:37:43,773 One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all 1575 01:37:43,793 --> 01:37:45,753 creatures in accordance with reason. 1576 01:37:46,611 --> 01:37:52,291 I mean, depends on what you mean by reason, like, like, like with logical 1577 01:37:52,331 --> 01:37:54,121 consistency or something like that. 1578 01:37:54,121 --> 01:37:54,841 Is that what you mean? 1579 01:37:54,841 --> 01:37:55,981 Or what, what do you mean 1580 01:37:56,006 --> 01:38:00,226 Now, I'm not trying, I'm not putting any value into this because, like, 1581 01:38:00,986 --> 01:38:02,806 it's just a thought experiment here. 1582 01:38:02,856 --> 01:38:06,606 So, like, uh, one should strive to, like, do you agree or do you disagree 1583 01:38:06,606 --> 01:38:08,326 or do you agree to some extent? 1584 01:38:08,776 --> 01:38:13,096 Think of it as one of those, you know, magazine, stupid, 1585 01:38:13,776 --> 01:38:17,706 Well, I like the, the definition kind of matters 'cause like, uh, 1586 01:38:17,706 --> 01:38:21,936 when, when a lot of what the, this is just from my experience when, 1587 01:38:21,936 --> 01:38:26,486 when a lot of people say, or when, when a lot of atheists say by reason. 1588 01:38:26,486 --> 01:38:30,176 It's, uh, you know, like you're subscribing to the 1589 01:38:30,176 --> 01:38:32,096 logic that I've already made. 1590 01:38:32,096 --> 01:38:36,926 And, uh, if you don't agree, then you're not like by re like it's, 1591 01:38:36,926 --> 01:38:38,846 it's the particular reasoning that. 1592 01:38:39,326 --> 01:38:43,696 You have versus, like, I think it's internally, like, if you're talking about 1593 01:38:43,706 --> 01:38:49,096 internal consistency, absolutely, but like, if it's consistency with what, you 1594 01:38:49,096 --> 01:38:53,896 know, you happen to believe or something like, or, uh, you know, to what society 1595 01:38:53,896 --> 01:39:00,106 believes or something like that, then it, that, that that, that, that's why 1596 01:39:00,106 --> 01:39:01,876 I'm a little hesitant on answering this. 1597 01:39:02,556 --> 01:39:06,906 yes, good answer, that's what I would have answered as well, I think, because 1598 01:39:06,906 --> 01:39:11,376 I think in accordance with reason, well, reason according to whom, like that, 1599 01:39:11,676 --> 01:39:13,476 reason is a very dangerous word there. 1600 01:39:13,806 --> 01:39:18,196 Okay, so number two, the struggle for justice is an ongoing and 1601 01:39:18,196 --> 01:39:21,846 necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. 1602 01:39:22,761 --> 01:39:26,381 Yes, but once again, I think you need a good definition of justice to make 1603 01:39:26,381 --> 01:39:32,901 that work, uh, because, uh, justice is a very loaded moral term and it's, 1604 01:39:32,931 --> 01:39:36,241 uh, you know, what, what, what is right or wrong and stuff like that. 1605 01:39:36,241 --> 01:39:40,191 And if you, if you take natural law or justice according to 1606 01:39:40,191 --> 01:39:41,361 natural law, I would agree. 1607 01:39:41,771 --> 01:39:46,841 If it's justice according to the laws of, you know, the, of the 1608 01:39:46,841 --> 01:39:48,441 United States of America, I wouldn't 1609 01:39:49,209 --> 01:39:50,459 Okay, three. 1610 01:39:51,089 --> 01:39:56,569 One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone. 1611 01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:00,720 disagree. 1612 01:40:02,585 --> 01:40:03,145 Okay? 1613 01:40:04,405 --> 01:40:06,785 So who else's will is it? 1614 01:40:07,695 --> 01:40:10,115 Like, who else gets to decide over your body? 1615 01:40:10,125 --> 01:40:11,990 This is basically property rights, isn't it? 1616 01:40:13,220 --> 01:40:20,070 Uh, well, so, one's, say, say that exactly again. 1617 01:40:20,570 --> 01:40:23,760 Property, in a Rothbardian sense, uh, property rights is just an 1618 01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:26,470 extension of that, the notion that you own your own body. 1619 01:40:26,930 --> 01:40:27,940 So, the, you're, 1620 01:40:28,420 --> 01:40:31,530 I, I, I, I, from a practical perspective, I agree. 1621 01:40:31,540 --> 01:40:33,050 From a spiritual perspective, I don't. 1622 01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:35,730 because it's God's body. 1623 01:40:36,650 --> 01:40:37,070 Yeah. 1624 01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:38,170 Okay, oh, 1625 01:40:38,300 --> 01:40:40,200 your, your body is a temple of God. 1626 01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:40,470 Yeah. 1627 01:40:41,740 --> 01:40:45,920 four, uh, The freedoms of others should be respected, 1628 01:40:46,170 --> 01:40:48,070 including the freedom to offend. 1629 01:40:48,450 --> 01:40:51,540 To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of 1630 01:40:51,540 --> 01:40:53,640 another is to forego one's own. 1631 01:40:56,010 --> 01:40:57,280 To willfully... 1632 01:40:59,965 --> 01:41:00,965 What was the word again? 1633 01:41:00,985 --> 01:41:01,975 To willfully what? 1634 01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:03,080 I'll do it again. 1635 01:41:03,140 --> 01:41:06,050 The freedoms of others should be respected, including 1636 01:41:06,050 --> 01:41:07,350 the freedom to offend. 1637 01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,100 To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of 1638 01:41:11,100 --> 01:41:13,330 another is to forego one's own. 1639 01:41:14,094 --> 01:41:17,954 Yeah, this again has that word unjust in there. 1640 01:41:18,174 --> 01:41:20,284 And that's the word I was tripping over. 1641 01:41:20,754 --> 01:41:24,324 If it's in alignment with natural law, if that's the justice that you're 1642 01:41:24,324 --> 01:41:25,664 talking about, yeah, absolutely. 1643 01:41:25,664 --> 01:41:28,104 If it's, if it's some state... 1644 01:41:28,559 --> 01:41:33,379 Law, like if it's another definition of justice, then no, like, if it's like, 1645 01:41:33,419 --> 01:41:36,999 you know, based on the laws of the United States or something like that, then 1646 01:41:37,269 --> 01:41:41,899 Now, I think, I think, I haven't done my research here, but I think this is 1647 01:41:42,229 --> 01:41:44,299 about natural law to a large extent. 1648 01:41:44,339 --> 01:41:46,019 I think that's what it means by justice. 1649 01:41:47,099 --> 01:41:47,359 yeah. 1650 01:41:47,359 --> 01:41:52,189 And this, like, because there are like many philosophies of justice. 1651 01:41:52,189 --> 01:41:56,649 It's, uh, you know, whatever the state says, which is a very sort of like, 1652 01:41:57,819 --> 01:42:04,429 statist, positivist kind of, um, uh, you know, assertion, uh, and, you know, 1653 01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:06,109 that that's how they define justice. 1654 01:42:06,149 --> 01:42:06,429 So. 1655 01:42:06,859 --> 01:42:10,349 You have to be kind of careful there, but yeah, under natural 1656 01:42:10,349 --> 01:42:11,139 law, I think that would 1657 01:42:11,219 --> 01:42:14,839 So you agree with the statement, but maybe not with the wording, because 1658 01:42:14,839 --> 01:42:16,759 you find the word unjustly to be 1659 01:42:16,979 --> 01:42:21,949 you, it's always tricky with these, for these like philosophical things, because 1660 01:42:21,959 --> 01:42:27,779 it, like, it matters a whole lot what each word means, and You know, like, 1661 01:42:27,989 --> 01:42:33,569 from a particular perspective, it's like, okay, that, like, I would definitely 1662 01:42:33,569 --> 01:42:38,139 agree in some cases, in others it, like, doesn't make any sense to me because 1663 01:42:38,139 --> 01:42:42,199 it's, uh, you know, somebody alters the definition so you agree with it, you know. 1664 01:42:42,929 --> 01:42:44,769 You just kind of have to be careful there, yeah. 1665 01:42:45,569 --> 01:42:47,799 Yeah, I agree with that, definitely. 1666 01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:48,609 Uh... 1667 01:42:49,519 --> 01:42:54,929 Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. 1668 01:42:55,339 --> 01:43:01,439 One should take care to never distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. 1669 01:43:03,039 --> 01:43:08,779 Uh, the second part I agree with, I don't think that covers all belief, so I 1670 01:43:08,789 --> 01:43:10,449 don't think I agree with the first part. 1671 01:43:11,149 --> 01:43:13,289 Okay, people are fallible. 1672 01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:18,219 If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve 1673 01:43:18,249 --> 01:43:20,109 any harm that might have been caused. 1674 01:43:21,270 --> 01:43:22,880 I believe that as a Christian, yeah. 1675 01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:28,710 Like, I think it would be harder for other people to justify that, but yeah, sure. 1676 01:43:29,519 --> 01:43:32,029 Okay, and the last, uh, the last... 1677 01:43:32,524 --> 01:43:36,364 The thing here is every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire 1678 01:43:36,364 --> 01:43:37,954 nobility in action and thought. 1679 01:43:38,284 --> 01:43:41,634 The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail 1680 01:43:41,634 --> 01:43:43,344 over the written or spoken word. 1681 01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:47,689 Yeah, though there are too many words that are too ambiguous 1682 01:43:47,689 --> 01:43:49,389 there for me to comment, but 1683 01:43:49,509 --> 01:43:55,079 now come, okay, this is, this is just a silly experiment because I'd like 1684 01:43:55,079 --> 01:43:56,719 you, for you to guess what this was. 1685 01:43:56,929 --> 01:43:58,019 What was these 1686 01:43:58,119 --> 01:43:59,684 don't know what was it. 1687 01:44:00,814 --> 01:44:04,424 And maybe like some humanist tract or something like that, I'm guessing 1688 01:44:04,424 --> 01:44:05,674 something from the alignment. 1689 01:44:05,714 --> 01:44:06,154 I don't know. 1690 01:44:07,029 --> 01:44:10,299 The Seven Tenets of Satanism by Anton LaVey. 1691 01:44:13,724 --> 01:44:16,364 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's, uh, yeah. 1692 01:44:16,624 --> 01:44:17,494 I, I don't know. 1693 01:44:17,494 --> 01:44:21,064 I don't even, I don't even know if I'm trying to make a point here or anything. 1694 01:44:21,064 --> 01:44:27,484 I just, if there is a point that it's, that I think, uh, I, I agree 1695 01:44:27,484 --> 01:44:31,234 with your words are important because with two fluffy words, you 1696 01:44:31,234 --> 01:44:34,644 could sort of agree with everything. 1697 01:44:34,649 --> 01:44:38,604 If, if, uh, if that's the case, if the words are fluffy enough and, and, 1698 01:44:38,604 --> 01:44:44,064 uh, You could, you, I, I say you could probably map Bitcoin onto these seven 1699 01:44:44,074 --> 01:44:48,834 tenets pretty easily and say that they're sort of in line with that if you just, 1700 01:44:48,954 --> 01:44:54,781 you know, interpret the words in a way that it's, that suits that purpose. 1701 01:44:55,111 --> 01:44:56,581 Uh, so, uh, yeah. 1702 01:44:57,321 --> 01:45:03,391 Well, I mean, the thing is, like, words are, in many ways, in those kinds 1703 01:45:03,391 --> 01:45:05,551 of things, often very meaningless. 1704 01:45:05,551 --> 01:45:11,816 I, I think, um, I was watching like a Scalia congressional thing, or he was 1705 01:45:11,816 --> 01:45:15,626 like talking to some law students a long time ago, and he was saying, have 1706 01:45:15,626 --> 01:45:19,606 you read the Bill of Rights for like some of these communist countries? 1707 01:45:20,606 --> 01:45:25,046 And, uh, and he was like, you read them, they're better than 1708 01:45:25,046 --> 01:45:26,406 our Bill of Rights, right? 1709 01:45:26,416 --> 01:45:31,006 Like, it guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of this and freedom of that. 1710 01:45:31,236 --> 01:45:35,946 It's better, like, for a lot of these, like, authoritarian communist countries. 1711 01:45:36,776 --> 01:45:37,716 So what's the difference? 1712 01:45:38,266 --> 01:45:40,996 Why is it that we have a better system than they do? 1713 01:45:41,026 --> 01:45:42,816 Why do they have so much oppression? 1714 01:45:43,366 --> 01:45:46,236 Because the words mean something. 1715 01:45:46,506 --> 01:45:50,626 The more the words actually mean something, the more you're likely to 1716 01:45:50,626 --> 01:45:55,146 be aligned with a prosperous society. 1717 01:45:55,146 --> 01:45:58,136 So, in a sense, like, I don't... 1718 01:45:58,451 --> 01:46:02,001 put much stock in something like the seven tenets of Satanism 1719 01:46:02,001 --> 01:46:04,261 because we know what they do, right? 1720 01:46:04,261 --> 01:46:09,941 Like their actions in many ways belie whatever it is that they say they do. 1721 01:46:10,021 --> 01:46:16,151 In fact, like, you can go look at, like, the, um, a lot of the tenets of, like, 1722 01:46:16,161 --> 01:46:18,201 some very violent organizations and stuff. 1723 01:46:18,211 --> 01:46:22,901 I'm sure you could go to, like, Some criminal mafia organization. 1724 01:46:23,251 --> 01:46:26,561 But that, that, that's, that's sort of like a, uh, an 1725 01:46:26,561 --> 01:46:28,311 expression of fiat to me, right? 1726 01:46:28,641 --> 01:46:32,411 Because in a fiat world, the words don't mean anything. 1727 01:46:32,421 --> 01:46:35,691 It's, it's, it's just sort of like reality by decree. 1728 01:46:36,181 --> 01:46:39,931 And that, that's where I think you get into a lot of trouble. 1729 01:46:39,931 --> 01:46:45,666 And this is why I say that fiat is an ATS money because It's not in alignment 1730 01:46:45,676 --> 01:46:50,796 with reality, whereas, you know, uh, Bitcoin is in alignment with reality, 1731 01:46:50,796 --> 01:46:55,106 with natural law, and that, that's what makes it so effective, and that, that's 1732 01:46:55,106 --> 01:47:01,896 what makes it, uh, so good for commerce and for, uh, storing value and all of 1733 01:47:01,896 --> 01:47:06,176 these things, because it's in alignment with reality instead of suspending 1734 01:47:06,176 --> 01:47:10,871 reality, and what fiat lets you do, as I point out in this book, is that it lets 1735 01:47:10,871 --> 01:47:12,541 you suspend reality for a long time. 1736 01:47:12,621 --> 01:47:17,531 And under zero interest rates, yeah, you can, you can, all 1737 01:47:17,531 --> 01:47:18,901 kinds of things can survive. 1738 01:47:19,441 --> 01:47:25,181 It's, it's only when reality reasserts itself, uh, that we find out that, uh, 1739 01:47:25,181 --> 01:47:26,791 you know, all of this was for naught. 1740 01:47:27,271 --> 01:47:30,921 Um, and we're kind of seeing that now even as the interest rates rise, because 1741 01:47:30,921 --> 01:47:32,631 reality is kind of rushing back in. 1742 01:47:33,001 --> 01:47:35,961 Like all these companies that were on zero interest rates, like, 1743 01:47:36,001 --> 01:47:37,131 they're not going to survive. 1744 01:47:37,221 --> 01:47:41,461 And there was a lot of subsidization of a lot of foolish stuff. 1745 01:47:41,941 --> 01:47:45,221 Uh, from, from this suspension of reality or wishing that 1746 01:47:45,221 --> 01:47:46,381 reality could be different. 1747 01:47:46,421 --> 01:47:51,201 Um, and that, that's where I think Bitcoin is very strong is that 1748 01:47:51,201 --> 01:47:52,651 it's an alignment with reality. 1749 01:47:52,651 --> 01:47:54,241 There's no suspension of reality. 1750 01:47:55,041 --> 01:47:59,871 And we can, we can go back to natural law market dynamics, uh, which I think 1751 01:47:59,881 --> 01:48:05,501 ultimately build up civilization in a really awesome way, um, that we've 1752 01:48:05,501 --> 01:48:07,701 been missing for the last 50 years. 1753 01:48:08,647 --> 01:48:09,157 to that. 1754 01:48:09,247 --> 01:48:13,957 And, uh, uh, I, I mean the, I look, I think this is the part where I say, 1755 01:48:14,167 --> 01:48:20,227 what do you think about the Bitcoin as, uh, atheist money or Christian 1756 01:48:20,227 --> 01:48:21,967 money and fiat atheist money? 1757 01:48:22,237 --> 01:48:26,227 Comment in the comment section below, and don't forget to like, subscribe. 1758 01:48:26,227 --> 01:48:28,717 Click the bell for notifications and brush your teeth. 1759 01:48:32,022 --> 01:48:32,412 perfect. 1760 01:48:32,522 --> 01:48:36,682 And, uh, the both of you are, we're ending this conversation on a good note, right? 1761 01:48:36,692 --> 01:48:38,432 Everyone's still friends, right? 1762 01:48:38,577 --> 01:48:39,207 Of course, 1763 01:48:39,737 --> 01:48:40,637 Absolutely. 1764 01:48:40,637 --> 01:48:42,947 I absolutely love this, Jimmy. 1765 01:48:43,307 --> 01:48:47,517 yeah, I don't get offended very easily, just so you know, so yeah. 1766 01:48:47,517 --> 01:48:48,047 A lot of 1767 01:48:49,487 --> 01:48:52,137 And we're very much alike like that, I think. 1768 01:48:52,717 --> 01:48:55,337 So, yeah, I love these debates. 1769 01:48:55,427 --> 01:48:56,597 bitcoiners are. 1770 01:48:57,137 --> 01:49:01,897 I don't think you can survive in the public realm without like some 1771 01:49:01,957 --> 01:49:03,897 serious criticism coming your way. 1772 01:49:04,107 --> 01:49:04,837 So yeah. 1773 01:49:04,967 --> 01:49:09,547 you need, you need a panther skin, sort of. 1774 01:49:09,727 --> 01:49:10,217 what you call it? 1775 01:49:10,227 --> 01:49:13,017 We call it like elephant hide or something like that. 1776 01:49:13,027 --> 01:49:13,277 Yeah. 1777 01:49:13,407 --> 01:49:14,007 Yeah, yeah. 1778 01:49:15,807 --> 01:49:19,507 Grasping for words there, but I hope to see you in real life 1779 01:49:19,877 --> 01:49:21,577 soon, Jimmy, so that we can... 1780 01:49:21,597 --> 01:49:23,897 Are you going to be at Pacific or Amsterdam? 1781 01:49:24,687 --> 01:49:26,847 Amsterdam, I'll be in Amsterdam, so I'll see you there. 1782 01:49:26,937 --> 01:49:27,397 Uh, 1783 01:49:27,657 --> 01:49:28,487 so I'll see you there. 1784 01:49:28,517 --> 01:49:30,727 Um, I'm going to Lugano as well, but yeah. 1785 01:49:30,907 --> 01:49:33,997 yeah, yeah, I'm going to Lugano as well, so I'll see you in Amsterdam 1786 01:49:34,007 --> 01:49:37,547 and Lugano, and there might be some stuff for us there to do. 1787 01:49:37,547 --> 01:49:39,277 I'm not going to say more than that. 1788 01:49:39,352 --> 01:49:40,222 But, uh, Uhhuh, 1789 01:49:40,497 --> 01:49:40,967 Okay. 1790 01:49:40,967 --> 01:49:45,097 Well, I'll, I'll, I'll get you a book when, uh, when I'm in Amsterdam for sure. 1791 01:49:45,097 --> 01:49:45,377 So. 1792 01:49:45,612 --> 01:49:45,802 Yeah, 1793 01:49:45,952 --> 01:49:46,642 fantastic. 1794 01:49:46,672 --> 01:49:49,162 And I'll, I'll, uh, bring Axiology book for you. 1795 01:49:49,872 --> 01:49:50,762 okay, sounds good. 1796 01:49:51,322 --> 01:49:52,732 yeah, I wrote a book of ology. 1797 01:49:53,002 --> 01:49:54,232 Maybe, maybe you don't know. 1798 01:49:54,237 --> 01:49:58,192 But I, I wrote a little short introductory book on ology, and 1799 01:49:58,362 --> 01:50:03,732 like you had one last year at Baltic Honey Badger, and I think I might 1800 01:50:03,732 --> 01:50:06,972 have one, some, actually, give me a, give me a sec, I might have it. 1801 01:50:07,622 --> 01:50:08,032 Let me just 1802 01:50:08,671 --> 01:50:10,531 I think that's the everything Divided book. 1803 01:50:10,861 --> 01:50:14,621 Uh, if it was from last year, because I wrote this last winter. 1804 01:50:14,741 --> 01:50:16,541 it's this one, yeah, there you go. 1805 01:50:16,681 --> 01:50:19,571 I have this one from the Baltic Honey Badger last year, and 1806 01:50:20,046 --> 01:50:20,746 Ah, nice. 1807 01:50:21,851 --> 01:50:26,251 oh, there you go, yeah, it was signed, yeah, there you go. 1808 01:50:26,281 --> 01:50:29,391 All right, but yeah, praxeology is the, is the new one, huh? 1809 01:50:30,246 --> 01:50:31,426 Yeah, and it's very short. 1810 01:50:32,356 --> 01:50:35,956 And it's me trying to condense Mises into 130 pages. 1811 01:50:36,486 --> 01:50:39,026 And I know that might make you giggle. 1812 01:50:40,391 --> 01:50:40,661 Well, 1813 01:50:40,786 --> 01:50:42,146 I did my best. 1814 01:50:42,791 --> 01:50:45,801 maybe I can go read it and have you on my podcast or something. 1815 01:50:46,816 --> 01:50:48,456 I'd love to come on and talk about it. 1816 01:50:48,656 --> 01:50:49,196 No audiobooks? 1817 01:50:49,581 --> 01:50:49,831 Yeah. 1818 01:50:49,831 --> 01:50:53,161 Um, I mean, send me a PDF or something and I'll, I'll try to read it. 1819 01:50:53,171 --> 01:50:56,541 Um, I don't know if I can do it before I get to Amsterdam. 1820 01:50:56,541 --> 01:50:59,791 So maybe, maybe I should just wait, but, uh, but I, I read 1821 01:50:59,791 --> 01:51:01,111 everything on the Kindle anyway. 1822 01:51:01,151 --> 01:51:04,066 So, um, Yeah, let's, uh, let's figure something out. 1823 01:51:07,046 --> 01:51:14,876 Um, I, like, I, I need to be like, because I take a lot of notes and stuff like that, 1824 01:51:14,881 --> 01:51:17,606 I, I need to be, I can't do it on audio. 1825 01:51:17,666 --> 01:51:25,456 Like, like the, like the, the reason I read books is, is to get ideas and I 1826 01:51:25,456 --> 01:51:28,156 need to be like, interacting with it. 1827 01:51:28,161 --> 01:51:31,086 So, Yeah, I don't really do audio. 1828 01:51:31,276 --> 01:51:31,636 Yeah. 1829 01:51:32,301 --> 01:51:34,361 Jimmy, please show your stuff one last time. 1830 01:51:34,726 --> 01:51:36,116 Yes, where can we find you? 1831 01:51:37,116 --> 01:51:39,956 Uh, at Jimmy Song on Twitter. 1832 01:51:39,976 --> 01:51:41,716 Um, I have a newsletter, jimmysong. 1833 01:51:41,716 --> 01:51:43,016 substack. 1834 01:51:43,046 --> 01:51:44,706 com, uh, Bitcoin Tech Talk. 1835 01:51:45,106 --> 01:51:51,916 Um, see, I, I have a link tree, I think, in my Twitter bio, or ex bio, I guess now. 1836 01:51:51,946 --> 01:51:53,956 Uh, so go check that out. 1837 01:51:54,486 --> 01:51:57,016 You can go find the book on fiatruinseverything. 1838 01:51:57,036 --> 01:51:59,526 com and you can order from Amazon. 1839 01:51:59,526 --> 01:52:03,426 You can order from Bitcoin Magazine, or you can get a signed copy from 1840 01:52:03,426 --> 01:52:04,846 me if you're in North America. 1841 01:52:04,856 --> 01:52:07,696 So yeah, please, uh, please order. 1842 01:52:07,696 --> 01:52:08,616 You can pay in Bitcoin. 1843 01:52:08,626 --> 01:52:09,716 You can pay in dollars, whatever. 1844 01:52:09,746 --> 01:52:11,226 So it's all, all available. 1845 01:52:12,596 --> 01:52:13,396 Excellent. 1846 01:52:13,666 --> 01:52:15,836 Jimmy, thank you so much for doing this. 1847 01:52:15,866 --> 01:52:17,356 We appreciate you a lot. 1848 01:52:17,426 --> 01:52:21,886 You're an absolute OG in the space and it's a privilege to have you on. 1849 01:52:22,366 --> 01:52:25,266 And send my regards to your beautiful family and I wish 1850 01:52:25,266 --> 01:52:26,546 you all the best in the future. 1851 01:52:27,326 --> 01:52:27,846 All right. 1852 01:52:27,846 --> 01:52:30,056 Well, I look forward to seeing you in Amsterdam. 1853 01:52:30,086 --> 01:52:32,716 Let's, uh, let's have some fun there too. 1854 01:52:33,426 --> 01:52:33,676 Yep. 1855 01:52:34,496 --> 01:52:36,026 Let's go LFG. 1856 01:52:36,951 --> 01:52:38,481 This has been the Freedom Footprint Show. 1857 01:52:38,591 --> 01:52:39,501 Thanks for listening. 1858 01:52:40,015 --> 01:52:40,275 All right. 1859 01:52:40,285 --> 01:52:42,175 You're going to need some editing on that one, huh? 1860 01:52:42,559 --> 01:52:44,579 So, what did you think of that? 1861 01:52:45,089 --> 01:52:47,059 It was quite the debate between Jimmy and Knut. 1862 01:52:47,579 --> 01:52:49,559 We may have to continue that one in the future. 1863 01:52:50,319 --> 01:52:51,319 What was your favorite moment? 1864 01:52:51,329 --> 01:52:52,009 Let us know. 1865 01:52:52,429 --> 01:52:55,379 You can send us a boostergram on Fountain, leave us a comment on YouTube, 1866 01:52:55,389 --> 01:52:57,259 or get in touch on Nostr or Twitter. 1867 01:52:57,879 --> 01:52:59,979 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 1868 01:52:59,979 --> 01:53:01,109 and subscribe to the channel. 1869 01:53:01,669 --> 01:53:05,369 Our show's sponsors are Amber App, Wasabi Wallet, Orange Pill 1870 01:53:05,369 --> 01:53:07,309 App, The Bitcoin Way, and Geyser. 1871 01:53:07,649 --> 01:53:08,849 Check them out in the description. 1872 01:53:09,679 --> 01:53:10,549 That's all for now. 1873 01:53:10,879 --> 01:53:13,489 See you next time, and thanks for listening.