Bitcoin Evangelism with Brian De Mint - Freedom Footprint 40

1 00:00:05,132 --> 00:00:08,823 I wanted to share with those people that were like myself, that were in the 2 00:00:08,923 --> 00:00:11,263 altcoin space of why Bitcoin matters. 3 00:00:11,298 --> 00:00:15,000 I haven't read a lot of books that talk about the Altcoin space. 4 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:18,450 . And so the book Chronicles Here's what. 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,060 Is interesting about the coin space, but here's ultimately why that stuff fails, 6 00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:25,650 or why that stuff falls on its face. 7 00:00:25,709 --> 00:00:28,439 one of the biggest strokes of genius I think Mateo had when he was creating 8 00:00:28,439 --> 00:00:30,779 the app was creating a paywall. 9 00:00:30,779 --> 00:00:32,729 I would've never done that cause I would've thought, wow, 10 00:00:32,789 --> 00:00:33,929 we're creating a social network. 11 00:00:33,929 --> 00:00:37,709 We need as many users as possible because then that will make more users come in. 12 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:41,939 Mateo from the very beginning, had this approach of quality over quantity. 13 00:00:42,387 --> 00:00:44,537 and that's just so in line with the Bitcoin ethos. 14 00:00:44,687 --> 00:00:48,227 It's like, I, I don't care if I have a million connections or not. 15 00:00:48,227 --> 00:00:52,277 I want a few really high quality, high signal connections. 16 00:00:52,488 --> 00:00:53,028 but guess what? 17 00:00:53,028 --> 00:00:56,578 When that happens, when you, when you create a few high quality connections, 18 00:00:57,137 --> 00:01:01,286 People see that and they wanna be a part of that, and it actually grows and grows. 19 00:01:01,286 --> 00:01:06,086 And so we're seeing a pretty nice little, uh, streak of growth right now because 20 00:01:06,091 --> 00:01:07,466 people are connecting through the app. 21 00:01:31,566 --> 00:01:35,376 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show a Bitcoin philosophy show with Knut 22 00:01:35,376 --> 00:01:37,836 Svanholm and me Luke, the Pseudo Finn. 23 00:01:38,493 --> 00:01:43,293 Today we're joined by Brian De Mint, author of Bitcoin Evangelism and Chief 24 00:01:43,293 --> 00:01:45,153 Marketing Officer at Orange Bill App. 25 00:01:46,248 --> 00:01:49,668 In today's episode, we dig more into how Orange Bill app is connecting 26 00:01:49,848 --> 00:01:50,988 Bitcoiners around the world. 27 00:01:51,348 --> 00:01:54,828 We discuss Bitcoin's marketing problem and we hear about how Brian 28 00:01:54,828 --> 00:01:58,218 is spreading the Bitcoin message to no coins and alt pointers through 29 00:01:58,218 --> 00:02:00,138 his book Bitcoin Evangelism. 30 00:02:00,701 --> 00:02:03,161 Before we dive in, we'd like to quickly remind you that the best way 31 00:02:03,166 --> 00:02:06,161 to support the show is to send us a boost or a stream us some SATs. 32 00:02:06,536 --> 00:02:09,176 Using a Value for Value podcasting app such as Fountain. 33 00:02:10,076 --> 00:02:12,866 If you're listening to this show as a podcast, check out Fountain. 34 00:02:12,866 --> 00:02:16,316 If you haven't already, you can earn STAs from listening to podcasts 35 00:02:16,316 --> 00:02:18,986 and you can support your favorite shows through value for value. 36 00:02:19,556 --> 00:02:22,106 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like, subscribe to the 37 00:02:22,106 --> 00:02:25,526 channel and turn on notifications so you never miss a weekly episode. 38 00:02:25,846 --> 00:02:29,356 And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors Wasabi Wallet, orange 39 00:02:29,356 --> 00:02:31,606 pill App, and Bitcoin Book Shop. 40 00:02:31,995 --> 00:02:33,765 All their information is in the description. 41 00:02:33,795 --> 00:02:35,715 We'll be talking a little bit more about them later. 42 00:02:36,145 --> 00:02:41,215 And now, without further ado, here's Brian Dement on the Freedom Footprint Show. 43 00:02:41,874 --> 00:02:42,264 Okay. 44 00:02:42,264 --> 00:02:44,274 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show. 45 00:02:44,334 --> 00:02:45,394 Brian, welcome. 46 00:02:45,834 --> 00:02:46,734 Thanks for joining us. 47 00:02:47,304 --> 00:02:48,714 Well, thank you guys for having me. 48 00:02:48,714 --> 00:02:49,314 I'm excited. 49 00:02:49,314 --> 00:02:50,574 This is, uh, long waited. 50 00:02:50,574 --> 00:02:53,398 I've, I've honestly, been excited about this one for a long time. 51 00:02:53,398 --> 00:02:56,188 We, we get to do a lot with the, with the book tour and stuff, but, uh, 52 00:02:56,188 --> 00:02:58,948 there's, there's certain shows that you just, you know, certain people you 53 00:02:58,948 --> 00:03:01,948 look forward to hanging out with and, uh, you and I have gotten to do, uh, 54 00:03:01,978 --> 00:03:06,538 you know, we, we did, uh, a a a spaces or a live broadcast for something else. 55 00:03:06,538 --> 00:03:10,918 But yeah, looking forward to kind of being a little bit more focused attention today. 56 00:03:11,168 --> 00:03:13,918 Yeah, that was a bigger, bigger group last time, so, 57 00:03:14,298 --> 00:03:17,868 Yeah, we've done a bunch of spaces together at this point, right? 58 00:03:17,868 --> 00:03:17,928 Yeah. 59 00:03:18,108 --> 00:03:23,238 Um, oh, the OPA spaces where you're, you, you usually host the orange pill, 60 00:03:23,768 --> 00:03:28,388 Twitter spaces and it's always good fun to be in those, uh, I don't know how you 61 00:03:28,388 --> 00:03:30,758 manage to find all those nice guests. 62 00:03:31,568 --> 00:03:31,778 I mean, 63 00:03:33,178 --> 00:03:37,838 you know what, it's, it's been, it's been nice because orange pill hops starting to 64 00:03:37,838 --> 00:03:40,118 get a little bit of its own reputation. 65 00:03:40,118 --> 00:03:44,838 And so I found that, uh, as long as I don't reach out to them as myself, they 66 00:03:44,838 --> 00:03:48,518 don't, they don't care when I reach out who on orange pill App reaches out. 67 00:03:48,518 --> 00:03:50,799 They think that, that's interesting cuz I, yeah, there's just, I think 68 00:03:50,898 --> 00:03:54,578 plenty of people have been sharing their experiences about meeting 69 00:03:54,578 --> 00:03:55,688 people on the orange pill app. 70 00:03:55,688 --> 00:03:59,738 There was a, there was a couple that had a, had a meetup the other night 71 00:03:59,738 --> 00:04:02,618 and so it's, I think people are hearing these organic stories about 72 00:04:02,618 --> 00:04:06,428 orange pill app and it's, it's kind of trickling up to, uh, you know, all 73 00:04:06,428 --> 00:04:09,428 sorts of different Bitcoiners and so people are fascinated by what's going 74 00:04:09,428 --> 00:04:11,588 on and that just gives us access to. 75 00:04:12,453 --> 00:04:13,683 Plenty of interesting people. 76 00:04:14,523 --> 00:04:14,913 Yeah. 77 00:04:14,913 --> 00:04:19,893 Um, and, uh, the, that, that's sort of what you do too. 78 00:04:19,893 --> 00:04:24,363 Like, uh, Luke, you, you, uh, reach out to people as the Freedom Footprint show 79 00:04:24,368 --> 00:04:27,513 and not as the Canadian Finn, I guess. 80 00:04:27,958 --> 00:04:28,678 Well, at least I can 81 00:04:28,678 --> 00:04:32,488 say I'm, you know, the co-host and producer of, of commute stunt homes. 82 00:04:33,298 --> 00:04:35,788 Well, it always helps when I name drop, but, uh, yeah, yeah, 83 00:04:35,788 --> 00:04:35,789 yeah. 84 00:04:36,088 --> 00:04:38,098 A nice, healthy name drop every once in a while. 85 00:04:38,098 --> 00:04:38,938 Never hurt anybody. 86 00:04:38,998 --> 00:04:40,258 Yeah, commute's a pretty good name 87 00:04:40,258 --> 00:04:40,528 drop. 88 00:04:40,533 --> 00:04:41,008 Definitely. 89 00:04:41,368 --> 00:04:46,748 But Brian, can you, can you give us just like a, an intro on you, a tldr or like, 90 00:04:47,008 --> 00:04:49,768 we like to say here an R on yourself? 91 00:04:51,658 --> 00:04:55,888 An R I'll give you the R um, the, uh, yeah, so the tl I don't 92 00:04:55,888 --> 00:04:57,388 think I've ever done anything. 93 00:04:57,478 --> 00:05:01,318 It's tldr it's always, I always give the, the, it's gonna be too long. 94 00:05:01,323 --> 00:05:02,398 You're not gonna wanna read this. 95 00:05:02,398 --> 00:05:07,198 So, um, but anyways, yeah, I, I, I've been in the, the bitcoin space. 96 00:05:07,198 --> 00:05:08,758 I don't know, that's such a weird thing to say. 97 00:05:08,848 --> 00:05:10,258 Um, but for about. 98 00:05:10,298 --> 00:05:12,848 10 years, I think 2013 I started studying it. 99 00:05:12,848 --> 00:05:17,701 I, so I've been an entrepreneur since 2008 and, uh, there was these entrepreneurs 100 00:05:17,791 --> 00:05:20,881 guys that I looked up to that were, tend to bought a little bit of Bitcoin. 101 00:05:20,881 --> 00:05:25,011 And so I started studying Bitcoin, honestly, as a skeptic, trying to 102 00:05:25,711 --> 00:05:26,971 tell them why they were idiots. 103 00:05:26,971 --> 00:05:30,571 It's like, I, I really respect you guys, but uh, why are you 104 00:05:30,571 --> 00:05:32,041 guys buying this funny money? 105 00:05:32,341 --> 00:05:35,901 Um, and so of course when you peel that onion back, And if you, 106 00:05:36,171 --> 00:05:40,161 truthfully, and, uh, you know, if you're rationally looking at these 107 00:05:40,161 --> 00:05:42,231 things, it tends to be very eye-opening. 108 00:05:42,231 --> 00:05:44,121 I'd never asked the question, what is money? 109 00:05:44,391 --> 00:05:47,421 I had never asked the question of how does our system work? 110 00:05:47,601 --> 00:05:49,221 How is currency created? 111 00:05:49,251 --> 00:05:52,461 I mean, you just, again, we've, we've all been through that process and that was 112 00:05:52,461 --> 00:05:56,631 how that process unfolded for me, was kind of coming at it from a skeptical lens. 113 00:05:56,931 --> 00:05:59,991 Um, so then, you know, there, you know, a little shortly after started 114 00:05:59,991 --> 00:06:03,591 buying Bitcoin, um, I wish somebody had told me about dollar cost averaging. 115 00:06:03,591 --> 00:06:06,141 I was pretty broke at the time cuz all my money was, was, was 116 00:06:06,141 --> 00:06:07,581 sunk into building my business. 117 00:06:07,881 --> 00:06:12,061 And so, uh, you know, wish, you know, wish I would've had plenty more, uh, funds to 118 00:06:12,291 --> 00:06:16,191 be able to, to buy and dollar cost average at the time, but, but just trickled in. 119 00:06:16,401 --> 00:06:21,051 And, uh, went through my altcoin phase in that 2016 ish time, uh, 120 00:06:21,051 --> 00:06:25,204 worked on an altcoin project, was, uh, was surrounded by guys that, 121 00:06:25,204 --> 00:06:27,454 that genuinely had, had good motives. 122 00:06:27,454 --> 00:06:30,964 So it wasn't like a, an outright scam on that front, but it was a, it 123 00:06:30,969 --> 00:06:34,794 was a, I guess you could call it a, a centralized group of people that, 124 00:06:35,224 --> 00:06:40,114 that didn't fully understand the, the, the big oomph to why Bitcoin 125 00:06:40,114 --> 00:06:42,004 mattered in, in, in decentralization. 126 00:06:42,009 --> 00:06:45,004 And so we could dive into some of the things that I got to experience 127 00:06:45,009 --> 00:06:48,214 through being in the marketing role for a blockchain project, 128 00:06:48,454 --> 00:06:49,714 um, that was very eye-opening. 129 00:06:49,719 --> 00:06:54,484 And it is leads to very compelling reasons of coming back to, to Bitcoin only. 130 00:06:54,784 --> 00:06:58,024 Um, so my, you know, my, my bell curve arc, or whatever you wanna call 131 00:06:58,024 --> 00:07:00,364 it, was Bitcoin only alt coin phase. 132 00:07:00,574 --> 00:07:05,104 And back here about, you know, 2019, uh, kind of landed back 133 00:07:05,104 --> 00:07:06,304 in the Bitcoin only space. 134 00:07:06,824 --> 00:07:11,414 and so, uh, then wrote a book kind of to, to talk about some of my experience. 135 00:07:11,414 --> 00:07:13,154 I, I wanted to. 136 00:07:14,539 --> 00:07:14,959 Share. 137 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:16,219 It's called Bitcoin Evangelism. 138 00:07:16,219 --> 00:07:20,509 I wanted to share with those of those people that were like myself, that were in 139 00:07:20,509 --> 00:07:23,059 the altcoin space of why Bitcoin matters. 140 00:07:23,059 --> 00:07:27,679 I, I, I haven't read a lot of books that talk that are bitcoin only books 141 00:07:28,129 --> 00:07:29,689 that talk about the Altcoin space. 142 00:07:29,989 --> 00:07:32,139 I think one of the things I was getting from my Altcoin friends 143 00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:36,866 was that, Bitcoiners just don't understand the coin space. 144 00:07:36,896 --> 00:07:40,496 Therefore we're, you know, we were people that bought Bitcoin a long time ago, 145 00:07:40,586 --> 00:07:43,586 and so we're just hoping that Bitcoin works, and that was the only reason that 146 00:07:43,586 --> 00:07:45,236 we were pro Bitcoin or Bitcoin only. 147 00:07:45,506 --> 00:07:48,656 And so the book Chronicles Here's what. 148 00:07:49,046 --> 00:07:54,266 Is interesting about the coin space, but here's ultimately why that stuff fails, 149 00:07:54,266 --> 00:07:55,856 or why that stuff falls on its face. 150 00:07:55,856 --> 00:08:00,776 So it, it takes a very soft approach to it, um, but ultimately leads the reader 151 00:08:00,781 --> 00:08:02,906 back to a Bitcoin only, uh, approach. 152 00:08:02,906 --> 00:08:07,706 So I guess the hope with the book is if somebody's gonna go through it, as opposed 153 00:08:07,706 --> 00:08:10,916 to doing what I did and going through, you know, your bitcoin phase, your coin 154 00:08:10,916 --> 00:08:12,176 phase, and then coming back to Bitcoin. 155 00:08:12,236 --> 00:08:16,856 Hopefully you could read this book and then experience that entire process before 156 00:08:16,856 --> 00:08:19,106 having ever gone through your coin phase. 157 00:08:19,436 --> 00:08:25,496 Um, and then that in the process of doing my book tour and, and just networking 158 00:08:25,496 --> 00:08:29,516 and meeting people, I got to get in touch with orange pill app and I just 159 00:08:29,516 --> 00:08:33,056 signed up for orange pill App as a user when they launched at Pacific Bitcoin. 160 00:08:33,326 --> 00:08:37,746 Mateo, She just gave me the pitch and I was sold on the idea. 161 00:08:37,746 --> 00:08:40,716 I said, you know, this is a, I believe that this is a critical 162 00:08:40,716 --> 00:08:44,316 piece of Bitcoin's future. 163 00:08:44,316 --> 00:08:47,616 I think that we need something like this in order to facilitate 164 00:08:47,886 --> 00:08:49,626 this social layer for Bitcoin. 165 00:08:49,836 --> 00:08:53,556 And so that's what got me involved in the, the orange pill outside of things. 166 00:08:54,696 --> 00:08:54,966 Yeah. 167 00:08:54,966 --> 00:08:58,266 And the orange pill app is, is way more than just the app. 168 00:08:58,356 --> 00:09:03,336 Like, uh, now this sounds like a shameless chiller, but, but having, uh, having 169 00:09:03,336 --> 00:09:08,346 been, uh, um, an advisor for the orange pill app for a while now, and, uh, seen 170 00:09:08,346 --> 00:09:12,546 what it can do and how it brings people together, it's, it's truly remarkable. 171 00:09:12,546 --> 00:09:18,496 And also like how, how we, uh, how the, it brings Bitcoin company people 172 00:09:19,236 --> 00:09:23,466 together and all the synergies with, with Fountain App for instance, which 173 00:09:23,466 --> 00:09:25,176 we had a spaces with the other day. 174 00:09:25,476 --> 00:09:28,206 And, uh, all sorts of collaborations. 175 00:09:29,908 --> 00:09:32,158 Not least with the Konsensus Network in my book. 176 00:09:32,158 --> 00:09:37,678 So I, I know I'm biased saying this, but, but, uh, but these are not the only 177 00:09:37,678 --> 00:09:39,598 companies and not the only people in this. 178 00:09:39,718 --> 00:09:43,138 It's, uh, you can truly see the power of this thing. 179 00:09:43,138 --> 00:09:46,348 It's bringing all sorts of bitcoins together and it's, it 180 00:09:46,348 --> 00:09:49,918 is very nice and, uh, I think you're a very good spokesperson 181 00:09:49,978 --> 00:09:52,228 person for the, uh, orange pill. 182 00:09:52,558 --> 00:09:59,188 Uh, I mean, it's good to have a clear voice instead, uh, uh, 183 00:09:59,188 --> 00:10:02,608 instead of just Mateo going, uh, you need to download the Apple. 184 00:10:04,888 --> 00:10:08,998 I mean, I love Mateo and everything he does, but, uh, but, uh, it's good that 185 00:10:08,998 --> 00:10:14,428 you're in the space too and, and, uh, such a good, uh, host of all of these spaces 186 00:10:14,428 --> 00:10:18,808 and, um, and whatnot and whatever's coming down the, the Pipe for Inch Pill app. 187 00:10:18,808 --> 00:10:21,988 And I'm looking forward to, to see where, where we can take this 188 00:10:21,988 --> 00:10:23,219 thing and what it, what it can do. 189 00:10:24,163 --> 00:10:27,523 Yeah, no, I, I think that it's, it's really exciting to be a part of this team. 190 00:10:27,523 --> 00:10:30,883 I mean, that, that, that honestly was a big part of, aside from just seeing 191 00:10:30,883 --> 00:10:35,203 the vision of what Orange Pop could be, Mateo had assembled a, a pretty amazing 192 00:10:35,203 --> 00:10:38,593 group of advisors with you and Daniel Prince and Sessions and all these guys. 193 00:10:38,593 --> 00:10:41,953 So for, for him, the, the pitch to me was, Hey, do you wanna 194 00:10:41,953 --> 00:10:43,183 come work with orange pill Hop? 195 00:10:43,183 --> 00:10:45,043 And I said, I said, yeah, absolutely. 196 00:10:45,043 --> 00:10:48,013 I get to work with these guys and do a monthly meeting and, and talk to 197 00:10:48,013 --> 00:10:50,653 some of these people that I get to, you know, pick their brains and hear 198 00:10:50,653 --> 00:10:53,083 being a, an, an upstart Bitcoin author. 199 00:10:53,088 --> 00:10:55,663 And I get to talk to Knut about, I mean, again, you, your 200 00:10:55,668 --> 00:10:56,653 books in the background here. 201 00:10:56,653 --> 00:10:58,603 It's like, these are books that I've read myself. 202 00:10:58,608 --> 00:10:59,653 And then I found inspiration. 203 00:10:59,653 --> 00:11:01,483 And so that there was a lot of value add to me. 204 00:11:01,863 --> 00:11:04,993 Um, but one, I'd say one of the coolest things, like you said, that we get to 205 00:11:04,993 --> 00:11:07,333 work with these other Bitcoin companies. 206 00:11:07,713 --> 00:11:09,423 That are building in the space. 207 00:11:09,813 --> 00:11:13,743 And, uh, I found myself, even though I've always understood from an early, 208 00:11:13,893 --> 00:11:17,763 early time of being in Bitcoin that I need to lower my time preference. 209 00:11:18,379 --> 00:11:22,159 When you build in Bitcoin, when you're, when you're creating something in Bitcoin 210 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,580 and, and working in that space, you lower your time preference even more. 211 00:11:26,179 --> 00:11:27,299 I found that that. 212 00:11:27,759 --> 00:11:30,189 I was finding out from other people in conversation that the Bitcoin 213 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:31,599 price was up on a certain day. 214 00:11:31,599 --> 00:11:35,379 And I, it's like, wow, I didn't, I, I don't check the Bitcoin price, uh, you 215 00:11:35,379 --> 00:11:39,369 know, 40 times a day like I used to because I've been so focused on just 216 00:11:39,369 --> 00:11:43,029 pushing the social layer of Bitcoin, like how do we make more connections? 217 00:11:43,029 --> 00:11:45,009 That was, those were the metrics that I started. 218 00:11:45,399 --> 00:11:50,469 Um, I guess finding, finding excitement in my day is like, how many books did I sell? 219 00:11:50,469 --> 00:11:51,039 Okay, great. 220 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:53,319 That means that there's x amount of more people that are potentially 221 00:11:53,319 --> 00:11:54,219 getting orange pill today. 222 00:11:54,459 --> 00:11:56,409 How many more people signed up for orange pill app? 223 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,929 That's great because there's that many more social connections. 224 00:11:58,929 --> 00:12:01,779 Those were the metrics that I was constantly refreshing on my phone 225 00:12:01,784 --> 00:12:03,429 rather than the Bitcoin price. 226 00:12:03,429 --> 00:12:06,579 And so, um, it's, it's been very refreshing talking to 227 00:12:06,579 --> 00:12:07,329 other people in the space. 228 00:12:07,329 --> 00:12:10,779 Like you, you're constantly talking about how to lower our time preference. 229 00:12:10,779 --> 00:12:13,539 I mean, what if this thing takes a thousand generations? 230 00:12:13,539 --> 00:12:16,089 We should consider that a success. 231 00:12:16,479 --> 00:12:19,899 Um, and that's the mindset that I think is, is very important to have. 232 00:12:20,434 --> 00:12:23,464 And we're, you know, we're, we're, I'm getting a lot of that from working with 233 00:12:23,464 --> 00:12:25,804 Fountain and working with Geyser Fund. 234 00:12:26,674 --> 00:12:30,214 These companies aren't talking about what we're gonna do today or tomorrow. 235 00:12:30,214 --> 00:12:32,374 They're talking about what we're gonna build for the, for the next 236 00:12:32,374 --> 00:12:35,644 10 years, and let's, let's have a longer time horizon that way. 237 00:12:35,644 --> 00:12:38,214 So it's been very helpful for me in a pragmatic sense. 238 00:12:39,374 --> 00:12:40,934 A, another thing, yeah. 239 00:12:41,024 --> 00:12:46,654 Just to give a, a shout out and a mention to B2C map and Nathan, uh, who's, uh, 240 00:12:47,594 --> 00:12:52,544 Building this wonderful map of where, wherever the Bitcoin retailers and 241 00:12:52,544 --> 00:12:57,404 the Bitcoin ATMs and whatever are, uh, there's been a whole bunch of such 242 00:12:57,409 --> 00:13:02,744 services in the past, but none of them have, have been very e easily integrated 243 00:13:02,744 --> 00:13:05,234 into other websites and other apps. 244 00:13:05,494 --> 00:13:09,404 And, um, B2C MAP is work, working closely with orange pill app. 245 00:13:09,404 --> 00:13:13,934 So you can, you can get all the Bitcoin locations, so to speak, 246 00:13:13,994 --> 00:13:16,544 uh, in, directly in the app. 247 00:13:16,544 --> 00:13:22,459 So it, it's, it feels like an app that's, Putting it all together, uh, laying the 248 00:13:22,459 --> 00:13:24,029 final piece of the possible in a way. 249 00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:25,019 Well, yeah. 250 00:13:25,019 --> 00:13:29,759 And, and about 20 minutes ago, I just got off a phone call with, uh, Texas Slim. 251 00:13:29,764 --> 00:13:32,459 I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but he runs the Beef Initiative. 252 00:13:32,969 --> 00:13:33,339 Um, oh yeah. 253 00:13:33,479 --> 00:13:37,349 And so we're, we're, yeah, we're, we're partnering with them in some capacity. 254 00:13:37,409 --> 00:13:40,979 Um, so we're, we're obviously promoting their events through the app. 255 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,109 Um, we're not promoting, we're just posting them through the app 256 00:13:43,109 --> 00:13:44,009 and then they can promote 'em. 257 00:13:44,009 --> 00:13:46,589 We're gonna, you know, obviously retweet and share those events. 258 00:13:46,589 --> 00:13:50,219 But I went out to the Georgia Beach Beef Initiative, um, 259 00:13:50,309 --> 00:13:51,779 last year, and that was great. 260 00:13:51,779 --> 00:13:54,629 I mean, they're, they're, it's, it's very in line with what we're trying 261 00:13:54,634 --> 00:13:57,779 to do through orange pill app is facilitating in real life connections. 262 00:13:58,139 --> 00:14:01,919 And so they're, they're getting consumers to go and shake. 263 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:03,719 That's their, that's their whole, you know, catchphrase is. 264 00:14:03,944 --> 00:14:06,434 Shake a rancher's hand, go and meet the rancher. 265 00:14:06,434 --> 00:14:10,274 Go and meet the guy that's growing your food or, or harvesting whatever it is, 266 00:14:10,694 --> 00:14:13,904 and actually look 'em in the eye, shake their hand, and you have this connection 267 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:18,794 that's gonna be much more difficult for, for any encroachment of, of tyranny or 268 00:14:18,794 --> 00:14:23,384 legislation to break when you've made a, a personal connection, um, it's, it's 269 00:14:23,414 --> 00:14:27,074 much more difficult to shut that down rather than if you have simply an online 270 00:14:27,074 --> 00:14:30,704 connection and then, All they need, you know, all the, the bad guys need to do 271 00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:34,574 is shut down their online store or, you know, pause their store for some reason. 272 00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:36,374 Then you have no, you no longer have a connection. 273 00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:40,244 But, but if I have a, if I have, if there's a street that I can take to go 274 00:14:40,244 --> 00:14:44,924 to my rancher and pick up my food, that's a much more difficult bond to break. 275 00:14:45,194 --> 00:14:47,444 And so those are, those are some of the partnerships we're working 276 00:14:47,444 --> 00:14:48,614 on right now with orange pill App. 277 00:14:48,944 --> 00:14:52,634 Um, and it's really cool to see somebody like Texas Slim. 278 00:14:53,074 --> 00:14:56,884 Who I've met before, but I said, you know, how familiar are you with the orange pill? 279 00:14:57,004 --> 00:14:57,694 He said, oh my gosh. 280 00:14:57,694 --> 00:15:00,184 We were just, I was out in Australia and we were talking about that at 281 00:15:00,184 --> 00:15:01,564 the Australian Bitcoin conference. 282 00:15:01,569 --> 00:15:05,524 And, you know, people were getting really excited about this, this, uh, 283 00:15:05,764 --> 00:15:09,574 this tool that we have at our disposal to connect with people, people see the 284 00:15:09,579 --> 00:15:11,354 value of the in real life connection. 285 00:15:11,854 --> 00:15:15,904 Um, one of the most biggest, or one of the biggest strokes of genius I 286 00:15:15,904 --> 00:15:19,684 think Mateo had when he was creating the app was creating a paywall. 287 00:15:19,684 --> 00:15:22,984 Like I would've never had the foresight if I was creating a 288 00:15:22,984 --> 00:15:24,784 social network to have a paywall. 289 00:15:24,784 --> 00:15:27,334 For those that don't know, the app costs three bucks a month. 290 00:15:27,884 --> 00:15:33,494 But it's the best $3, $3 you'll ever spend because it filters out any bots 291 00:15:33,494 --> 00:15:35,054 noise or any of that kind of stuff. 292 00:15:35,534 --> 00:15:38,264 And, uh, I would've never done that cause I would've thought, wow, 293 00:15:38,324 --> 00:15:39,464 we're creating a social network. 294 00:15:39,464 --> 00:15:43,244 We need as many users as possible because then that will make more users come in. 295 00:15:43,754 --> 00:15:47,474 Mateo from the very beginning, had this approach of quality over quantity. 296 00:15:47,974 --> 00:15:50,444 Um, and that's just so in line with the Bitcoin ethos. 297 00:15:50,594 --> 00:15:54,134 It's like, I, I don't care if I have a million connections or not. 298 00:15:54,134 --> 00:15:58,184 I want a few really high quality, high signal connections. 299 00:15:58,514 --> 00:15:59,444 Um, but guess what? 300 00:15:59,444 --> 00:16:02,994 When that happens, when you, when you create a few high quality connections, 301 00:16:03,954 --> 00:16:08,174 People see that and they wanna be a part of that, and it actually grows and grows. 302 00:16:08,174 --> 00:16:12,974 And so we're seeing a pretty nice little, uh, streak of growth right now because 303 00:16:12,979 --> 00:16:14,354 people are connecting through the app. 304 00:16:14,564 --> 00:16:19,754 I was out at the, the swan salon at, uh, you know, a few weeks ago, and they 305 00:16:19,754 --> 00:16:22,904 had, you know, it's this really posh house where Swan hosts their private 306 00:16:22,904 --> 00:16:26,834 event for, for their, for their high net worth investor people or whatever. 307 00:16:27,194 --> 00:16:31,724 Um, and I'm, I was talking to a guy JD from Cypherpunk Films and he, he had 308 00:16:31,724 --> 00:16:33,134 his friend there and I said, oh, hey. 309 00:16:33,224 --> 00:16:34,454 And he said, this is my friend Derek. 310 00:16:34,454 --> 00:16:35,024 I'm like, oh, great. 311 00:16:35,024 --> 00:16:35,624 How'd you guys meet? 312 00:16:35,624 --> 00:16:38,804 And he goes, we met on orange pill App an hour before this event. 313 00:16:39,344 --> 00:16:42,854 I had a plus one ticket and I didn't have any Bitcoiners that wanted to come 314 00:16:42,854 --> 00:16:44,474 with me, so I went into orange pill app. 315 00:16:44,969 --> 00:16:48,509 And found this guy that lives kind of in my neighborhood and, uh, I 316 00:16:48,509 --> 00:16:50,609 just messaged him and said, Hey, do you wanna come to this event? 317 00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:54,359 And I said, oh, you, you know, you, you trusted that, that's, that's why did 318 00:16:54,364 --> 00:16:57,329 you feel so confident that you could go pick up a stranger in your car? 319 00:16:57,329 --> 00:16:59,609 You just pulled up out in front of his house, you d you, you 320 00:16:59,614 --> 00:17:01,049 DMed him and said, Hey, I'm here. 321 00:17:01,319 --> 00:17:03,229 What made you feel comfortable with that interaction? 322 00:17:03,229 --> 00:17:05,549 He goes, because I knew they were a Bitcoin. 323 00:17:06,239 --> 00:17:09,689 He goes, it, it, it created this, there was this curation process 324 00:17:09,689 --> 00:17:12,959 that happened where I had no problem picking up this dude and taking him 325 00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:14,489 to this event right when I met him. 326 00:17:14,889 --> 00:17:18,849 Because we've been able to interact within the b the Bitcoin ecosystem. 327 00:17:19,089 --> 00:17:21,999 Um, and so it's, it's very interesting seeing how these, these 328 00:17:21,999 --> 00:17:24,789 real life connections are, are playing out, that are, that are 329 00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:26,559 manifesting through a social network. 330 00:17:26,859 --> 00:17:28,719 I don't think we've ever seen anything like this before. 331 00:17:28,719 --> 00:17:31,879 I think that this is gonna be, uh, a use case that's talked about 332 00:17:32,169 --> 00:17:33,429 in textbooks for years to come. 333 00:17:33,429 --> 00:17:36,099 And I can say that because I didn't create the app, so I don't get 334 00:17:36,099 --> 00:17:37,359 to take any of the credit for it. 335 00:17:37,659 --> 00:17:40,869 But I think that, that, that business textbooks of the future will, will 336 00:17:40,874 --> 00:17:44,439 write about this is like how do you start a social network with a paywall? 337 00:17:44,679 --> 00:17:49,209 It could only happen in the Bitcoin ecosystem because if you try to start 338 00:17:49,209 --> 00:17:53,649 TikTok with a paywall, that demographic doesn't understand value for value, right? 339 00:17:53,649 --> 00:17:57,249 But Bitcoiners inherently understand value for value and, and why it's 340 00:17:57,249 --> 00:18:00,219 worth paying for something, um, to get something more out of it. 341 00:18:00,219 --> 00:18:03,519 So it's been very interesting to have a front row seat to this. 342 00:18:05,099 --> 00:18:05,429 Yeah. 343 00:18:05,429 --> 00:18:06,329 Fascinating. 344 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:12,089 It's, uh, valuable value is substituting attention for attention, 345 00:18:12,089 --> 00:18:15,029 I guess, or attention for ad revenue. 346 00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:16,540 yeah. 347 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:17,290 And it's beautiful. 348 00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:18,760 Um, absolutely. 349 00:18:19,619 --> 00:18:20,699 yeah, that's one event. 350 00:18:20,879 --> 00:18:21,539 Uh, event. 351 00:18:21,539 --> 00:18:23,669 Was that the one in Miami or another event? 352 00:18:24,029 --> 00:18:24,249 So 353 00:18:24,249 --> 00:18:26,999 this was a, so this was one in Southern California. 354 00:18:26,999 --> 00:18:28,609 They do monthly Yeah. 355 00:18:28,959 --> 00:18:29,449 Meetups 356 00:18:29,549 --> 00:18:29,879 and stuff. 357 00:18:29,879 --> 00:18:30,059 Yeah. 358 00:18:30,299 --> 00:18:33,599 Yeah, because I attended some swan party in, in Miami. 359 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:38,579 This, this, by the way, this is recorded between, uh, the Miami conference and the 360 00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:40,229 Prague conference, which is next week. 361 00:18:40,739 --> 00:18:45,809 So, uh, me and Luke will be in Prague and try to, try to do some stuff there, but I 362 00:18:45,809 --> 00:18:50,369 guess this episode will be released after Prague, so there's no use in chilling. 363 00:18:50,374 --> 00:18:51,149 That right Luke. 364 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:58,129 No, uh, we're actually really trying to build up a big, uh, a big backlog because 365 00:18:58,129 --> 00:19:00,969 we've got a busy summer, but, uh, yeah. 366 00:19:00,969 --> 00:19:01,369 Yeah, yeah. 367 00:19:01,429 --> 00:19:03,109 But, but Prague's gonna be really cool. 368 00:19:03,109 --> 00:19:06,859 I mean, yeah, Brian and, uh, and I think a lot of the American Bitcoiners 369 00:19:06,859 --> 00:19:09,769 in general, I, I think you should try and make it out to, to the 370 00:19:09,774 --> 00:19:10,970 European conferences if you can. 371 00:19:10,999 --> 00:19:12,649 It's, it's a different vibe, I think. 372 00:19:12,769 --> 00:19:14,959 Have you been out to any of the European events? 373 00:19:15,439 --> 00:19:15,649 Mm-hmm. 374 00:19:15,739 --> 00:19:18,559 No, I've actually never been to Europe before, so, sorry. 375 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:20,419 I feel like kinda, uh, ashamed of that. 376 00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:22,219 You should grab a ticket to Honey Badger. 377 00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:24,949 Come see, that's a pure signal event. 378 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:25,819 Really? 379 00:19:26,269 --> 00:19:28,699 Reg regains the beginning of September. 380 00:19:28,969 --> 00:19:29,660 You should look into that. 381 00:19:29,749 --> 00:19:32,149 Uh, it's one of our favorite conferences. 382 00:19:32,329 --> 00:19:34,759 We'll be there if not, if not our favorite conference. 383 00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:36,889 Uh, it's where we at first time. 384 00:19:36,894 --> 00:19:36,929 Yeah. 385 00:19:36,929 --> 00:19:37,639 It's where, yeah. 386 00:19:37,729 --> 00:19:41,689 And it's where sort of where my Bitcoin career quote. 387 00:19:42,974 --> 00:19:47,954 Took off, uh, I brought 50 bucks in my hand luggage, uh, in 2019 to Riga, 388 00:19:48,314 --> 00:19:49,424 and that's where it all started. 389 00:19:50,304 --> 00:19:53,179 Why do you think those European events are like so high signal? 390 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:58,119 Um, I mean, you could argue that in the US that that, that that's maybe not the case. 391 00:19:58,299 --> 00:19:59,589 Uh, it depends on the event. 392 00:19:59,739 --> 00:20:01,089 Uh, um, but yeah, why 393 00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:07,896 I, I think the Amer American culture is much more, and I guess especially 394 00:20:07,896 --> 00:20:14,736 after 1971, I should add that, but it's, uh, a much more, uh, it re it 395 00:20:15,186 --> 00:20:17,556 revolves around advertisement a lot. 396 00:20:17,946 --> 00:20:21,516 Uh, and that's not the case in Europe, uh, to, to the same extent. 397 00:20:22,146 --> 00:20:27,441 So, so it's this, In a way, FII mindset where you need to move fast and break 398 00:20:27,441 --> 00:20:33,681 things and just push your products, uh, as much as you can and big Strolight 399 00:20:33,681 --> 00:20:35,541 and banners and stuff everywhere. 400 00:20:36,111 --> 00:20:39,591 And you need to make as much noise as possible to get people's attention. 401 00:20:39,651 --> 00:20:42,621 And Europe is a little different, I guess also the. 402 00:20:43,981 --> 00:20:48,211 In the us like Bitcoin Miami is the biggest conference and it's 403 00:20:48,481 --> 00:20:53,431 sort of also, uh, it claims to be a Bitcoin only conference, but it's 404 00:20:53,821 --> 00:20:57,991 really, uh, a Bitcoin and, uh, a couple of shit coins conference. 405 00:20:58,441 --> 00:21:03,661 Uh, it's very inclusive like that and, uh, that's all nice and 406 00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:10,081 friendly, but it keeps the noise louder in relative to to the signal. 407 00:21:10,241 --> 00:21:10,519 Yeah. 408 00:21:10,646 --> 00:21:14,601 and I think in, in, in Europe that the conferences are, More separate. 409 00:21:14,601 --> 00:21:19,071 So there are Bitcoin only conferences and then the crypto, blockchain, whatever, 410 00:21:19,521 --> 00:21:23,181 shift conferences, um, uh, on the side. 411 00:21:23,181 --> 00:21:28,971 So, so, uh, yeah, uh, maybe that's just me being ignorant 412 00:21:28,971 --> 00:21:31,221 about other American conferences. 413 00:21:31,226 --> 00:21:35,001 I don't know how many mixed coin conferences or if they're, I, I hear 414 00:21:35,331 --> 00:21:37,401 bit block boom is quite high signal. 415 00:21:37,401 --> 00:21:41,541 And, uh, also of course the, the Pacific Bitcoin that, that's higher 416 00:21:41,546 --> 00:21:46,251 in, in terms of Bitcoin or to shitcoin or ratio during the conference. 417 00:21:46,256 --> 00:21:46,431 Yeah. 418 00:21:46,821 --> 00:21:50,661 I mean, then again, Miami is great because the Miami Conference is great 419 00:21:50,666 --> 00:21:52,401 because of all the site events as well. 420 00:21:52,401 --> 00:21:52,491 Mm-hmm. 421 00:21:52,491 --> 00:21:57,351 It creates a, since it's so big, it creates this, these sub-communities 422 00:21:57,351 --> 00:21:59,421 around, around the, the conference. 423 00:21:59,426 --> 00:22:03,231 I remember when, when I landed in Miami, the first thing I did was I, yeah. 424 00:22:03,721 --> 00:22:07,891 I, I bumped into Andy Edstrom and then we waited for his luggage for a while, 425 00:22:07,891 --> 00:22:13,261 and I just took a cab straight to this, uh, kill idle rock venue where 426 00:22:13,261 --> 00:22:15,391 I was doing the Satoshi Roto thing. 427 00:22:15,391 --> 00:22:22,126 So I just gave my luggage to, to, and, uh, He said, Kurt, you need to go up on stage. 428 00:22:22,126 --> 00:22:25,366 And I, I went up on stage and grabbed the guitar or a bass or something 429 00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:26,416 and played a couple of songs. 430 00:22:26,986 --> 00:22:27,976 And, uh, yeah. 431 00:22:27,976 --> 00:22:30,916 When I finished playing a couple of songs, I went out on the street 432 00:22:30,921 --> 00:22:33,976 again and there was my luggage under a table on the streets. 433 00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,316 So like, ah, we need to put this somewhere. 434 00:22:36,616 --> 00:22:37,156 Oh, yeah, yeah. 435 00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:37,876 Forgot about that. 436 00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:38,616 And, uh, yeah. 437 00:22:39,356 --> 00:22:42,196 But, but that, uh, event was pretty successful. 438 00:22:42,196 --> 00:22:46,246 So we're, uh, we thought more recent because I, I thought we played all the. 439 00:22:46,506 --> 00:22:49,896 The wrong notes and none of the good, the right notes, but, uh, people 440 00:22:49,896 --> 00:22:53,076 seem to have enjoyed it anyway, so we're doing it again in Prague now. 441 00:22:53,526 --> 00:22:54,026 Oh, that's cool. 442 00:22:54,096 --> 00:22:58,026 That's really, uh, yeah, so looking forward to that a lot, uh, with a 443 00:22:58,206 --> 00:23:00,936 slightly different band, but, uh, yeah. 444 00:23:01,986 --> 00:23:03,226 Well I was in the audience. 445 00:23:03,726 --> 00:23:04,657 I was in the audience for that. 446 00:23:04,746 --> 00:23:08,316 I, I, you know, that was, that was, that was such a boss move, man. 447 00:23:08,496 --> 00:23:10,086 It's like, uh, where, where's canoe? 448 00:23:10,146 --> 00:23:11,736 Oh, I heard his flight's just getting in. 449 00:23:11,736 --> 00:23:12,486 Okay, cool. 450 00:23:12,666 --> 00:23:17,171 And then, There's, and he just walks up on stage and starts just rock it out. 451 00:23:17,471 --> 00:23:19,271 It was like, this is how he says hi. 452 00:23:19,271 --> 00:23:22,331 He just comes up on stage and just starts killing it on the guitar. 453 00:23:22,331 --> 00:23:23,951 So, no man, that, that was really cool. 454 00:23:24,131 --> 00:23:24,311 No, 455 00:23:24,311 --> 00:23:28,061 but I'm, I'm living the meme and the dream at the same time here. 456 00:23:28,061 --> 00:23:33,281 I'm doing all the things that I wish I was doing when I was 26 and I'm 46 and I'm, 457 00:23:33,581 --> 00:23:35,291 it's actually happening and it's, yeah. 458 00:23:35,531 --> 00:23:40,061 To me it's just a dream come true to, to be able to go to Miami and go straight 459 00:23:40,061 --> 00:23:41,981 to rock venue and play a couple of riffs. 460 00:23:42,511 --> 00:23:43,161 That was so cool. 461 00:23:43,191 --> 00:23:43,481 Yeah. 462 00:23:44,681 --> 00:23:45,281 It's great. 463 00:23:46,147 --> 00:23:50,347 Uh, about your book, um, Bitcoin Evangelism, you say that it's 464 00:23:50,347 --> 00:23:52,692 for, um, It's for shift corners. 465 00:23:53,452 --> 00:23:53,742 Yeah. 466 00:23:54,802 --> 00:23:57,102 Is that the, is that the target audience for it? 467 00:23:57,102 --> 00:23:57,942 Or like, so 468 00:23:58,572 --> 00:24:01,842 Brian, that they uses a different word than you to refer to? 469 00:24:04,512 --> 00:24:05,532 I'm not ashamed of that. 470 00:24:05,537 --> 00:24:06,762 I'm gonna call it shift corners. 471 00:24:06,767 --> 00:24:07,242 Yeah, yeah. 472 00:24:07,242 --> 00:24:09,073 You, you call that, that's, I, I have no problem. 473 00:24:09,282 --> 00:24:10,332 I just don't like the cuss. 474 00:24:10,332 --> 00:24:11,142 I don't know what it is. 475 00:24:11,142 --> 00:24:13,272 I just, I just, I'm not, I'm not a swearer, which just 476 00:24:13,272 --> 00:24:14,322 was, was raised that way. 477 00:24:14,382 --> 00:24:19,572 Um, so I just say all coin, but I, I used it in select, uh, in select occasions. 478 00:24:19,577 --> 00:24:20,858 But, Anyways. 479 00:24:20,858 --> 00:24:24,548 Yeah, I mean, so the, the whole concept of evangelism, it, it 480 00:24:24,578 --> 00:24:26,648 hearkens back to Christian evangelism. 481 00:24:26,648 --> 00:24:30,938 So it was like Christian evangelism, whether you find merit in that or not. 482 00:24:31,008 --> 00:24:34,898 It, it was one of the most successful, successful movements of all time. 483 00:24:34,898 --> 00:24:37,718 And it was, it was because they had a really good formulated message 484 00:24:37,718 --> 00:24:38,908 for two groups of people, right? 485 00:24:38,908 --> 00:24:41,618 There was the atheist and then there was the pagan. 486 00:24:41,678 --> 00:24:44,318 So there was the person that didn't believe, and then there was the person 487 00:24:44,318 --> 00:24:47,888 that believed in a higher power or deity, but they believed in, you know, some 488 00:24:47,888 --> 00:24:50,588 variation of, of God or Gods or whatever. 489 00:24:50,918 --> 00:24:53,558 And it's like, that's kind of what we have here in the, in the bitcoin space. 490 00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:55,478 We have the, we have the no coin or we have the skeptic. 491 00:24:55,778 --> 00:24:58,228 And so there, there needs to be a, an argument formulated for them. 492 00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:02,738 And then we have the altcoin pagans, uh, that, that believe in, you know, 493 00:25:02,738 --> 00:25:06,248 they believe in blockchain, but they believe in some variation or they 494 00:25:06,248 --> 00:25:09,278 believe that, you know, uh, you know, decentralization doesn't matter, 495 00:25:09,278 --> 00:25:12,788 but what we really need is speed and scalability and those sorts of things. 496 00:25:12,788 --> 00:25:17,665 So being able to speak to those two types of people, I think is, is powerful. 497 00:25:17,665 --> 00:25:22,465 And I think that, If we want the Bitcoin community, maybe the lowest hanging 498 00:25:22,465 --> 00:25:27,715 fruit for bringing Bitcoiners or, or, or increasing the amount of Bitcoiners in the 499 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,085 world is just orange pilling the crypto community, uh, because they're people 500 00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:38,035 that, that are fascinated by, uh, maybe a change in, in, you know, a paradigm 501 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,195 shift in terms of money or value transfer. 502 00:25:40,495 --> 00:25:42,805 Um, some of these people are just in it to get rich quick. 503 00:25:42,805 --> 00:25:46,585 And so if you, if that's all they care about, then, then yeah, I guess 504 00:25:46,585 --> 00:25:49,825 the, the merits of Bitcoin aren't necessarily going to appeal to them. 505 00:25:50,125 --> 00:25:54,895 Um, because w yeah, I don't, we don't take much of approach of, of talking about this 506 00:25:54,895 --> 00:25:56,115 is why Bitcoin's gonna go to the moon. 507 00:25:56,575 --> 00:25:58,945 Um, and so maybe that's, that's the only thing that they're on, 508 00:25:59,095 --> 00:26:00,265 you know, crypto Twitter for. 509 00:26:00,475 --> 00:26:04,405 But if they do care about a, a fundamental change in the way that 510 00:26:04,405 --> 00:26:07,945 value is transferred, um, I've talked to plenty of friends of mine. 511 00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:11,380 That are really into Solana because they really are intrigued by 512 00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:13,750 the, by, by the movement of defi. 513 00:26:14,147 --> 00:26:16,997 all right, well, let's, let's break that down and, and, and fully 514 00:26:16,997 --> 00:26:18,527 understand what, what that means. 515 00:26:18,527 --> 00:26:21,497 And then most of the guys that I know that are on Solana, they 516 00:26:21,497 --> 00:26:25,147 don't understand that it's been 51% attacked multiple, multiple times. 517 00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:28,667 And so they, they don't realize how, how vulnerable their, 518 00:26:28,667 --> 00:26:30,137 their money or their funds are. 519 00:26:30,407 --> 00:26:33,527 And so just walking through that process is really important. 520 00:26:33,527 --> 00:26:37,157 And then even sharing some of my experiences from when I was the, the, 521 00:26:37,157 --> 00:26:40,097 the marketing guy for a blockchain project, like I was saying earlier, 522 00:26:40,337 --> 00:26:42,947 there's some experiences in there that were pretty eye-opening. 523 00:26:42,952 --> 00:26:43,507 I mean, so. 524 00:26:44,987 --> 00:26:48,257 Kind of like how I, I'm in my role in marketing right now for orange pill app. 525 00:26:48,257 --> 00:26:51,347 I was, I was in that similar role for this, this blockchain 526 00:26:51,347 --> 00:26:52,457 project called Athenian. 527 00:26:52,517 --> 00:26:55,247 And it was a education decentralizing education, right? 528 00:26:55,247 --> 00:26:57,497 Like that's what blockchain, yeah, blockchain projects. 529 00:26:57,737 --> 00:27:01,487 You take something, take lemonade stands and we're gonna decentralize lemonade 530 00:27:01,487 --> 00:27:03,707 stands or whatever, whatever, X, Y, Z. 531 00:27:03,712 --> 00:27:05,687 So that, that was kind of our mission at the time. 532 00:27:05,687 --> 00:27:05,897 Right. 533 00:27:06,347 --> 00:27:11,717 Well, you can imagine every day that I would wake up, I would have 10 dms 534 00:27:11,717 --> 00:27:16,157 in my inbox from another blockchain project saying, Hey, we're x, y, Z coin. 535 00:27:16,337 --> 00:27:20,207 Let's announce a partnership with you guys, and then we'll, we'll 536 00:27:20,207 --> 00:27:23,957 pump it and let's, I mean, they were literally just messages about pumping 537 00:27:23,957 --> 00:27:27,167 and dumping and, and scamming their, scamming their groups of people. 538 00:27:27,167 --> 00:27:29,267 So I think it's really important for, for. 539 00:27:29,687 --> 00:27:31,997 People that understand it when they're buying into these projects, 540 00:27:32,417 --> 00:27:36,317 the, the, the people that you're buying these coins from are actively 541 00:27:36,317 --> 00:27:38,597 pursuing a scam of your money. 542 00:27:38,597 --> 00:27:41,327 They're lit, they're actively trying to siphon off your money. 543 00:27:41,332 --> 00:27:44,117 And I think that most people don't understand it, that, that humans 544 00:27:44,122 --> 00:27:45,107 would do that to one another. 545 00:27:45,767 --> 00:27:46,427 It's crazy. 546 00:27:46,427 --> 00:27:48,807 To us it's, it, it's, it's obvious, right? 547 00:27:48,827 --> 00:27:52,307 We, we know that there's scammers out there, but most people think that the 548 00:27:52,307 --> 00:27:56,537 blockchain spaces like this altruistic playground of, of people being, you know, 549 00:27:56,542 --> 00:28:00,347 singing, you know, sunshine and rainbows and lollipops and all that kind of stuff. 550 00:28:00,587 --> 00:28:03,377 And so the naivety in that space is pretty high. 551 00:28:03,377 --> 00:28:06,677 And so just even sharing some of those stories about overt 552 00:28:06,677 --> 00:28:08,477 scams is, is really powerful. 553 00:28:08,477 --> 00:28:12,587 But one of the most eye-opening things that I saw, um, after I'd been asked 554 00:28:13,187 --> 00:28:16,667 a thousand times to try and pump and dump our coin, which we never did, 555 00:28:16,757 --> 00:28:18,137 we, we never did on our side of it. 556 00:28:18,137 --> 00:28:21,367 We actually had people that, that weren't, weren't of that mindset. 557 00:28:23,012 --> 00:28:27,182 I actually went to one of the, the exchanges that we had our coin listed on, 558 00:28:27,182 --> 00:28:31,412 it was one of those small exchanges, c pay tax or one, one of the, one of the, 559 00:28:31,417 --> 00:28:35,282 the, the, the exchanges, that's probably blown up by now, but I, it was, it was 560 00:28:35,492 --> 00:28:39,482 late one night and there was about $200 worth of our coin on this exchange. 561 00:28:39,482 --> 00:28:44,282 We had the, our coin was, uh, a e m was the name of the coin, and I 562 00:28:44,282 --> 00:28:46,322 bought all $200 worth of the coin. 563 00:28:46,322 --> 00:28:51,032 I said, I wonder what happens if I buy up all the liquidity of this coin and 564 00:28:51,032 --> 00:28:53,342 now there's no liquidity on the market. 565 00:28:53,987 --> 00:28:56,327 What happened was I bought the $200 worth of coin. 566 00:28:56,447 --> 00:28:58,127 They were all 2 cents per coin. 567 00:28:58,577 --> 00:29:01,967 And then what I did was I sold the next coin to myself. 568 00:29:01,967 --> 00:29:04,157 So Wash traded it to myself. 569 00:29:04,157 --> 00:29:07,277 I didn't even have to log in and, and go into a different account. 570 00:29:07,277 --> 00:29:10,997 I was able to create a sell order and then buy it through my exact 571 00:29:10,997 --> 00:29:15,167 same account, and I, I sold the next coin to myself for a dollar. 572 00:29:15,347 --> 00:29:19,967 So I 50 x the price of the coin in one cell by selling it to myself. 573 00:29:20,387 --> 00:29:21,797 And I said, okay, that's interesting. 574 00:29:21,797 --> 00:29:24,617 If 50 x the, the, the price on this one exchange, right? 575 00:29:24,647 --> 00:29:25,277 That was it. 576 00:29:25,447 --> 00:29:26,087 No, no, no. 577 00:29:26,177 --> 00:29:27,257 I went to Coin Gecko. 578 00:29:27,257 --> 00:29:30,618 I went to Coin Market Cap, and our coin went from number 1300 579 00:29:30,623 --> 00:29:35,597 in the world to number 400 in the world in one cell for $1. 580 00:29:35,597 --> 00:29:37,877 Our market cap increased by 5 million. 581 00:29:38,447 --> 00:29:39,857 According to these websites. 582 00:29:39,857 --> 00:29:42,107 It aggregated across the entire internet. 583 00:29:42,437 --> 00:29:46,697 And it told everybody that the new price of this coin is now $1, because 584 00:29:46,697 --> 00:29:49,107 I sold one coin to myself for $1. 585 00:29:49,287 --> 00:29:52,307 So the, the market increased by $5 million. 586 00:29:52,497 --> 00:29:54,507 By the sale, and I know this because I saw it. 587 00:29:54,507 --> 00:29:55,137 It was me. 588 00:29:55,137 --> 00:29:55,947 I did it myself. 589 00:29:56,217 --> 00:30:00,237 The market increased by 5 million because of the sale of a $1 coin. 590 00:30:00,657 --> 00:30:01,467 I sold it back. 591 00:30:01,472 --> 00:30:03,327 I equ, I created equilibrium in the market. 592 00:30:03,327 --> 00:30:05,967 I just did that as an experiment and I put it back to where it was. 593 00:30:06,327 --> 00:30:10,317 The next day I resigned and I focused on Bitcoin only education. 594 00:30:10,317 --> 00:30:12,657 I said, this is way too, I had no idea. 595 00:30:12,657 --> 00:30:14,457 I knew that there there might be problems in the market. 596 00:30:14,757 --> 00:30:19,077 I had no idea it was that fickle of a market that 5 million could 597 00:30:19,077 --> 00:30:21,057 move off of a $1 transaction. 598 00:30:22,067 --> 00:30:26,807 Yeah, but this is why, uh, Bitcoin dominance index is such a bullshit metric 599 00:30:27,317 --> 00:30:31,337 because all of the other ones, like the way they calculate the market cap is ju 600 00:30:31,367 --> 00:30:35,687 just how you, you described it like they issue, they, they sell one coin for a 601 00:30:35,692 --> 00:30:39,257 dollar and then they issue a billion coins and all of a sudden you have a billion 602 00:30:39,257 --> 00:30:41,597 dollar market cap and it's all bullshit. 603 00:30:41,657 --> 00:30:45,017 It's, it's not because they actually sold a billion dollars at all. 604 00:30:45,077 --> 00:30:47,207 They sold $1 and Yeah. 605 00:30:47,317 --> 00:30:52,967 And, and, uh, more often than not to themselves in, in one way or or another. 606 00:30:52,972 --> 00:30:53,097 Yeah. 607 00:30:53,327 --> 00:30:53,387 Yeah. 608 00:30:53,387 --> 00:30:54,887 And so, so we, yeah. 609 00:30:54,887 --> 00:30:59,627 I, I, I get that you've been working with a lot of sincere people in the Alcon 610 00:30:59,627 --> 00:31:03,977 space and I think, I think that a, a huge chunk of the people working with. 611 00:31:04,472 --> 00:31:07,622 Uh, alt coins, for lack of a better word, or there is a better 612 00:31:07,622 --> 00:31:09,272 word, but anyway, uh, you can say 613 00:31:09,272 --> 00:31:09,362 it. 614 00:31:09,362 --> 00:31:11,072 I'm not offend, I'm not offended by hearing 615 00:31:11,072 --> 00:31:11,192 it. 616 00:31:11,222 --> 00:31:13,202 No, but I, I don't wanna offend them. 617 00:31:13,502 --> 00:31:19,232 It's that, uh, it's that there's always an asshole on top, for lack of a better word. 618 00:31:19,622 --> 00:31:23,432 Uh, uh, with all of these projects, there's always someone who knows 619 00:31:23,432 --> 00:31:28,442 what's going on and that person, because they, they, they must have, 620 00:31:28,832 --> 00:31:34,682 you know, at some point, stumbled upon Bitcoin to be in the alt coin space, 621 00:31:34,952 --> 00:31:37,022 quote unquote altcoin space at all. 622 00:31:37,052 --> 00:31:38,522 You need to know about Bitcoin. 623 00:31:38,582 --> 00:31:41,912 Like you need to, you need to at least have heard of Bitcoin, and if 624 00:31:41,912 --> 00:31:46,172 you've done the tiniest amount of research, you realize that there can 625 00:31:46,172 --> 00:31:50,008 be only, there can be only one, that doesn't really have anyone on top. 626 00:31:50,068 --> 00:31:53,158 And furthermore, the decentralizations, uh, part. 627 00:31:54,013 --> 00:31:58,243 As you say, they want to decentral, decentralized shoes and, and, uh, you 628 00:31:58,243 --> 00:32:00,733 know, hairdresser, education and whatever. 629 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,770 decentralization in Bitcoin is an unfortunate means to a 630 00:32:05,770 --> 00:32:07,510 greater end and nothing more. 631 00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:12,490 The only it, it is unfortunate that we need decentralization because 632 00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:16,360 the only reason we do is because we can't trust one another with 633 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,220 money, with or with a money printer. 634 00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:19,840 It has never worked in history. 635 00:32:20,290 --> 00:32:25,312 The, the, the guy with the money printer, Can never assist the 636 00:32:25,312 --> 00:32:27,052 temptation to press the copy button. 637 00:32:28,162 --> 00:32:33,082 That is the problem with all, with all money, uh, throughout history and so, so, 638 00:32:33,142 --> 00:32:35,662 or with all currencies throughout history. 639 00:32:36,112 --> 00:32:39,472 So that's the problem we're trying to solve, uh, through, 640 00:32:39,922 --> 00:32:41,872 uh, by using decentralization. 641 00:32:42,082 --> 00:32:46,312 But what we want, what we want to get to is sound money that 642 00:32:46,402 --> 00:32:49,912 is censorship resistant and no, no one can do anything about. 643 00:32:50,332 --> 00:32:54,022 And no one can take away from you by force very easily because they 644 00:32:54,022 --> 00:32:55,342 cannot know how much you have. 645 00:32:55,882 --> 00:32:58,372 And that is the greater end. 646 00:32:58,612 --> 00:33:00,862 And it has nothing to do with decentralization. 647 00:33:00,892 --> 00:33:06,832 It has everything to do with markets and, uh, meritocracy and, uh, you know, 648 00:33:06,892 --> 00:33:09,952 fairness, truth, all of this stuff. 649 00:33:10,447 --> 00:33:14,767 So, uh, yeah, we had, this was in our conversation with Alexander Bar as well, 650 00:33:14,827 --> 00:33:21,367 uh, Luke, how, how, uh, Bitcoin, because speaking of evangelism, excuse me for 651 00:33:21,637 --> 00:33:25,837 going on a little ranter, Brian, but, but I, I get some, some nice ideas here. 652 00:33:25,867 --> 00:33:32,677 Like the, the, uh, some people view Bitcoin as a religion and uh, that's 653 00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:36,457 all fine and some people view it as a cult and that's also fine. 654 00:33:36,967 --> 00:33:39,247 I find it more, uh, to be. 655 00:33:39,997 --> 00:33:43,927 That what we're living in now is the cult because what we're living 656 00:33:43,927 --> 00:33:48,967 in now requires belief and Bitcoin doesn't really require belief. 657 00:33:48,997 --> 00:33:56,857 It's very rigid and it's very, it's all about the logos, uh, and uh, the logos. 658 00:33:57,157 --> 00:34:01,837 Uh, being that it's all once and zeros and it's all communication and 659 00:34:01,837 --> 00:34:05,737 you can look up every step of it, and you don't have to trust anyone 660 00:34:05,737 --> 00:34:07,807 really, if, if you do your homework. 661 00:34:08,532 --> 00:34:12,312 Uh, in all these little sub caverns of the rabbit hole. 662 00:34:12,612 --> 00:34:16,302 So, so in that sense, I, I view it as financial atheism, 663 00:34:16,302 --> 00:34:17,622 as I wrote in my first book. 664 00:34:17,652 --> 00:34:21,372 Like You, uh, that, that's another angle on this, that we're, 665 00:34:21,372 --> 00:34:24,252 we're the ones breaking out of a cult, not the ones in a cult. 666 00:34:24,912 --> 00:34:28,932 Uh, however, that's sort of hard to promote to when 99% of the 667 00:34:28,932 --> 00:34:30,642 population is still in the cult. 668 00:34:30,762 --> 00:34:34,212 So it's, maybe it's better to, to take the other angle, 669 00:34:34,632 --> 00:34:36,552 uh, split feelings about that. 670 00:34:37,002 --> 00:34:43,032 But in that sense, I feel that Bitcoin is using this ultimate logos to create the, 671 00:34:43,032 --> 00:34:47,082 the pathos and the mythos, which is the, the other two aspects of the human psyche. 672 00:34:47,082 --> 00:34:53,322 So we get, we get to morality and spirituality through having perfect logic. 673 00:34:54,552 --> 00:34:56,892 So we are using logic to create the other two. 674 00:34:57,582 --> 00:35:01,582 And that's what I find so, So wonderful about it. 675 00:35:01,792 --> 00:35:05,932 One of the aspects because it creates, uh, something outta 676 00:35:05,932 --> 00:35:07,672 nothing, for lack of a better phrase. 677 00:35:08,092 --> 00:35:15,142 Uh, it creates, uh, when you have truth in the bass slay of, of just, 678 00:35:15,232 --> 00:35:18,402 just like your story with a guy that picked up a new found friend 679 00:35:18,682 --> 00:35:20,572 via orange biap to this one party. 680 00:35:21,112 --> 00:35:26,182 Uh, when you have truth in the base layer of who we are, uh, then it's 681 00:35:26,182 --> 00:35:30,322 much easier to, to trust other people because, you know, if they're a true 682 00:35:30,532 --> 00:35:32,122 Bitcoin, they have good intentions. 683 00:35:32,122 --> 00:35:34,192 They don't have this shitty shit coin intentions. 684 00:35:34,762 --> 00:35:40,972 So, so, so that's, that's what I find the, the duality of that, having 685 00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:46,432 this, uh, Absolute truth in the base layer en enable, or that you can 686 00:35:46,432 --> 00:35:51,502 verify every step of the base layer that this adversarial thinking in the 687 00:35:51,502 --> 00:35:55,942 base layer that enables this truth layer, which enables trust between 688 00:35:55,942 --> 00:35:58,552 people on the other side of the coin. 689 00:35:58,662 --> 00:35:59,082 Mm-hmm. 690 00:35:59,512 --> 00:35:59,802 Yeah. 691 00:36:00,112 --> 00:36:03,052 Well, I mean in, in, in, in praxeology you talk a lot about 692 00:36:03,052 --> 00:36:06,232 axioms and, and things that we can, that, that are apparent, right? 693 00:36:06,232 --> 00:36:08,062 That, that can lead to human action. 694 00:36:08,422 --> 00:36:13,882 Um, I was thinking about this on the plane ride home is, is how there's a 695 00:36:13,882 --> 00:36:16,072 tremendous amount of centralization. 696 00:36:16,072 --> 00:36:18,292 When I was sitting on the plane, I'm like, there's a tremendous amount 697 00:36:18,292 --> 00:36:20,182 of centralization in this plane. 698 00:36:20,422 --> 00:36:21,772 There's a hundred of us on the plane. 699 00:36:22,012 --> 00:36:23,332 There's two pilots in the front. 700 00:36:23,662 --> 00:36:27,442 Why, why do I actually trust this centralization right here? 701 00:36:27,447 --> 00:36:30,982 Because I was just at a conference where all we talked about was decentralization. 702 00:36:31,222 --> 00:36:35,572 Why does this work in this case, uh, that that a hundred people are trusting too? 703 00:36:35,872 --> 00:36:38,212 It's because there's aligned incentives, right? 704 00:36:38,332 --> 00:36:42,652 And so my, my human action, I, I, I can get on a plane and be comfortable 705 00:36:42,682 --> 00:36:46,942 in that interaction because I, I believe that those pilots want to get 706 00:36:46,942 --> 00:36:50,092 home to their families in the same way that I want to get home to my family. 707 00:36:50,302 --> 00:36:55,432 But as soon as incentives become disaligned, then, then, 708 00:36:55,492 --> 00:36:58,582 then centralization and, and power no longer works, right? 709 00:36:58,582 --> 00:37:02,572 And so across an economy, across, especially the globe, 710 00:37:02,812 --> 00:37:03,773 we can't, we can't really. 711 00:37:04,822 --> 00:37:08,242 We, we've never really had a good way to align incentives and, you know, 712 00:37:08,272 --> 00:37:12,832 until something like Bitcoin where we can verify every, every process, 713 00:37:12,832 --> 00:37:15,682 every step of the transaction, we don't have to trust, we can verify. 714 00:37:15,832 --> 00:37:19,582 So I no longer have to trust that the pilot wants to get home to his family. 715 00:37:19,642 --> 00:37:22,672 I, I no longer have to trust that the central banker has 716 00:37:22,672 --> 00:37:23,602 my best interest in mind. 717 00:37:24,082 --> 00:37:29,122 I can just verify that, that the, that the greedy minor that's trying to mine Bitcoin 718 00:37:29,122 --> 00:37:30,652 because he wants to enrich himself. 719 00:37:30,892 --> 00:37:32,002 I can trust in the fact that. 720 00:37:32,827 --> 00:37:37,327 While he's enriching himself by mining, he's securing my Bitcoin and therefore 721 00:37:37,327 --> 00:37:38,947 I'm benefiting from that interaction. 722 00:37:39,217 --> 00:37:44,230 Um, the, the incentives become aligned, through, through self-motivation in 723 00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:49,630 the same way that the pilot, his, his self-motivation to get home, it aligns 724 00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:50,921 with my self-motivation to get home. 725 00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:54,400 And so I think that that Bitcoin's found a way, and that's probably, that's 726 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,460 part of the revolution is that it, it was the first time that that humanity 727 00:37:57,465 --> 00:38:01,930 found a way for the monetary system to align incentives with people that have. 728 00:38:02,130 --> 00:38:04,680 Completely different motivations. 729 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,340 Um, and so that's, that's, yeah, I, I think that that's fascinating. 730 00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:12,300 The, the, in terms of how you're talking about the logos leading to the Yeah. 731 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:12,990 Spiritual 732 00:38:12,990 --> 00:38:13,260 side. 733 00:38:13,470 --> 00:38:17,430 It, it's, it's sort of what, what money is supposed to do, but has 734 00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:20,130 never been able to do because money has always been corrupted. 735 00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:24,060 So like with the, with the airplane and the airline and the airport and 736 00:38:24,065 --> 00:38:28,873 everyone involved, the thing we trust is the division of labor because we d 737 00:38:28,933 --> 00:38:30,583 we trust the pilots drive the plane. 738 00:38:30,583 --> 00:38:33,703 We trust the c e o of the airline company to run the company, and 739 00:38:33,703 --> 00:38:38,313 we trust the, the barista in the airport to make our coffee and so on. 740 00:38:38,653 --> 00:38:39,583 And that's beautiful. 741 00:38:39,583 --> 00:38:40,873 It's the division of labor. 742 00:38:41,353 --> 00:38:47,473 Uh, however, if that, if that mechanism, uh, gets distorted by 743 00:38:47,503 --> 00:38:51,853 crappy money and doesn't function anymore, then, then we have to. 744 00:38:52,213 --> 00:38:57,823 Resort to, to, uh, to trust the pilot not wanting to kill himself. 745 00:38:57,913 --> 00:39:03,883 Like then again, the pilot has to trust the, the, the fuel guy to 746 00:39:03,883 --> 00:39:09,073 have, uh, you know, top really have topped up the plane so that we can 747 00:39:09,078 --> 00:39:10,364 get to our destinations and stuff. 748 00:39:10,713 --> 00:39:15,673 But, but the, uh, the more fiat gets corrupted, the, the harder it will 749 00:39:15,673 --> 00:39:20,473 become to trust the pilot to do, uh, to do his job for, for the proper reasons 750 00:39:20,743 --> 00:39:21,973 and the more we have to trust him. 751 00:39:22,988 --> 00:39:26,348 To just not crash the plane because he has an incentive to survive. 752 00:39:26,798 --> 00:39:26,998 Yeah. 753 00:39:27,218 --> 00:39:30,278 That's, that's the doom and gloom, uh, the doom and gloom motive 754 00:39:30,488 --> 00:39:32,168 versus the, uh, the market motive. 755 00:39:32,173 --> 00:39:34,718 I, I like, I like yours, yours is a bit more optimistic. 756 00:39:36,428 --> 00:39:39,068 The division of labor is much more compelling than the, 757 00:39:39,128 --> 00:39:40,058 I just don't want to die. 758 00:39:40,508 --> 00:39:41,438 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 759 00:39:42,218 --> 00:39:47,768 But, uh, Fiat makes us believe in a way that, that everyone is just in 760 00:39:47,768 --> 00:39:52,658 it for the, I, I just don't wanna die thing and are willing to do whatever 761 00:39:52,658 --> 00:39:57,578 for money and on a Bitcoin standard, that, that is not necessary anymore. 762 00:39:58,308 --> 00:40:02,348 Because once you're above a certain threshold, nobody knows what 763 00:40:02,348 --> 00:40:03,728 that threshold is, by the way. 764 00:40:03,908 --> 00:40:08,528 But you can, you can be sure that if you just don't spend it all, uh, 765 00:40:08,528 --> 00:40:11,498 it will provide you with all the security you need for the future. 766 00:40:12,038 --> 00:40:16,298 Making, making each human being a much calmer, a much more, you 767 00:40:16,298 --> 00:40:20,168 know, at ease person, that, that is just better to interact with. 768 00:40:20,598 --> 00:40:20,798 Mm. 769 00:40:21,608 --> 00:40:22,148 As we know. 770 00:40:23,193 --> 00:40:24,273 Yeah, I agree. 771 00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:27,803 ? Today's show is brought to you by our sponsors. 772 00:40:28,133 --> 00:40:30,443 First up, orange pill app Stack. 773 00:40:30,443 --> 00:40:34,553 Friends who stack SATs meet like-minded Bitcoiners near you and help speed up 774 00:40:34,553 --> 00:40:36,893 hyperbitcoinization with orange pill app. 775 00:40:37,823 --> 00:40:40,823 Bitcoin isn't an online only phenomenon, and orange pill app helps 776 00:40:40,828 --> 00:40:44,933 facilitate the social layer connecting Bitcoiners in their local area. 777 00:40:45,443 --> 00:40:48,443 It maintains your privacy through the whole process, and since you 778 00:40:48,448 --> 00:40:51,713 have to pay to access the app, you know that everyone there cares 779 00:40:51,713 --> 00:40:53,963 about Bitcoin and is high signal. 780 00:40:54,353 --> 00:40:56,003 A great new feature is events. 781 00:40:56,453 --> 00:41:00,143 You can create events and meetups right from the orange pill app and help build 782 00:41:00,143 --> 00:41:04,373 your local community while maintaining the Bitcoin only Signal orange pill app is 783 00:41:04,378 --> 00:41:07,493 available on iOS and Android download now. 784 00:41:08,363 --> 00:41:13,583 Next up, wasabi Wallet, an open source, no non-custodial desktop wallet that is 785 00:41:13,613 --> 00:41:16,373 trustless, easy to use and affordable. 786 00:41:16,778 --> 00:41:19,598 It has coin joint built in to facilitate your privacy. 787 00:41:20,198 --> 00:41:23,798 Every Bitcoin transaction leaves a clear Footprint, but with wasabi, you can 788 00:41:23,798 --> 00:41:27,488 make sure that others can't track your steps and threaten your sovereignty. 789 00:41:27,728 --> 00:41:29,318 Just send your coins to Wasabi. 790 00:41:29,318 --> 00:41:32,648 Wallet wait, and your coins will be private on the other end. 791 00:41:32,948 --> 00:41:36,278 It's open source, trustless by design and non-custodial. 792 00:41:36,488 --> 00:41:38,438 You have full control over your keys. 793 00:41:38,798 --> 00:41:41,588 Check it out now@wasabiwallet.io. 794 00:41:42,012 --> 00:41:42,312 Brian, I'd 795 00:41:42,317 --> 00:41:44,592 like to hear a little bit more about, since you have a background 796 00:41:44,592 --> 00:41:48,912 in, in marketing, uh, I guess I've kind of got two questions. 797 00:41:48,912 --> 00:41:50,562 I'll start with, I'll start with the first one. 798 00:41:50,562 --> 00:41:53,322 So how did you get into marketing? 799 00:41:53,322 --> 00:41:56,862 How did that turn into the, the role that you, you tend to have these 800 00:41:56,862 --> 00:41:57,132 days? 801 00:41:57,972 --> 00:42:01,182 Um, well, I, uh, in college, I, I didn't study marketing. 802 00:42:01,182 --> 00:42:05,442 I, I studied something that, uh, commute would call a fake 803 00:42:05,447 --> 00:42:07,382 science of, I studied psychology. 804 00:42:08,022 --> 00:42:14,052 I having, I wouldn't say that having studied psychology and, and gotten a 805 00:42:14,052 --> 00:42:18,192 degree in, in human behavioral science, I think that that, uh, yeah, it's, it is one 806 00:42:18,197 --> 00:42:22,127 of those things where, Perhaps I would've done something different in hindsight, 807 00:42:22,187 --> 00:42:24,017 uh, if, if I'd known the conclusion of it. 808 00:42:24,017 --> 00:42:28,367 But it did, uh, it did grant some, some, or it did lend itself 809 00:42:28,372 --> 00:42:30,137 to the, the field of marketing. 810 00:42:30,137 --> 00:42:32,777 So after college, I actually went in and started, uh, my 811 00:42:32,777 --> 00:42:34,067 wife and I started a business. 812 00:42:34,127 --> 00:42:36,858 Um, we, we, we do, we've been running it for the last 14 years. 813 00:42:37,097 --> 00:42:37,767 We do a light therapy. 814 00:42:38,347 --> 00:42:40,877 Uh, we have a small chain of light therapy studio. 815 00:42:40,877 --> 00:42:43,727 So we do infrared, sauna, red light therapy. 816 00:42:43,727 --> 00:42:44,087 I don't know. 817 00:42:44,147 --> 00:42:45,767 These things are becoming popular now. 818 00:42:45,857 --> 00:42:48,467 Um, but when we started, they certainly weren't popular. 819 00:42:48,467 --> 00:42:52,007 We even do, uh, like vitamin d sunbeds, there's people that, 820 00:42:52,007 --> 00:42:54,917 believe it or not, even in Southern California, don't get sunshine. 821 00:42:54,917 --> 00:42:57,857 And so their doctors have them come in and, and get sunshine. 822 00:42:57,857 --> 00:43:04,457 So it was this, I think I really was able to sharpen my teeth a bit, um, in a field 823 00:43:04,457 --> 00:43:08,837 and starting a business that was kind of this holistic type of business where, 824 00:43:09,107 --> 00:43:11,597 uh, people were treating aches and pains. 825 00:43:11,787 --> 00:43:16,382 Um, People that were looking to get off their prescription meds and maybe treat 826 00:43:16,382 --> 00:43:18,842 their arthritis through infrared sauna. 827 00:43:19,082 --> 00:43:23,402 Um, how do you, when, when, when the paradigm of society is you have a pain 828 00:43:23,402 --> 00:43:28,382 and you take a pill, uh, it's really hard to unwind some of that thinking. 829 00:43:28,772 --> 00:43:31,083 And so here, here, instead of taking the pill, it's gonna make 830 00:43:31,232 --> 00:43:32,762 you feel good in about five minutes. 831 00:43:33,092 --> 00:43:35,972 Here, let's, let's do this therapy that's gonna take you a month to start 832 00:43:35,972 --> 00:43:39,812 feeling good and it's gonna take a month for you to, to kill your inflammation. 833 00:43:40,022 --> 00:43:43,082 But I promise you, in the end, you might not ever need that pill again. 834 00:43:43,082 --> 00:43:47,192 Cause we might, we might not cure, but we might treat the underlying cause of 835 00:43:47,192 --> 00:43:49,352 your problem and fix it in the long term. 836 00:43:49,352 --> 00:43:53,582 So from, from even when I was still in my fiat mindset when I was in, you know, 837 00:43:53,672 --> 00:43:58,592 pre Bitcoin, I was marketing a business that, that had low time preference. 838 00:43:58,862 --> 00:44:04,472 And so I've just been programmed with this idea that if something is true, 839 00:44:04,862 --> 00:44:08,852 Then we just continue to champion it and talk about its merits, because 840 00:44:08,852 --> 00:44:12,782 there will always be a portion of the population that's interested in that. 841 00:44:12,842 --> 00:44:15,152 People are drawn to truth. 842 00:44:15,572 --> 00:44:18,692 Um, there's people that are actively trying to suppress truth. 843 00:44:18,992 --> 00:44:21,842 But even just like in, in, in psychology, we know, we know all the 844 00:44:21,847 --> 00:44:26,222 time the things that we're trying to suppress are often the things that 845 00:44:26,222 --> 00:44:27,752 we're wrestling with the most, right? 846 00:44:27,752 --> 00:44:31,742 So our culture is in this state of suppressing truth, but I think it's 847 00:44:31,742 --> 00:44:34,712 because young people or the, the TikTok generation, they're trying 848 00:44:34,712 --> 00:44:38,792 to suppress truth so much because it weighs on them so heavily. 849 00:44:38,942 --> 00:44:43,142 So I think that in the end, marketing and championing these things, there, 850 00:44:43,142 --> 00:44:45,452 there's, there's, I don't think there's any secret sauce to this. 851 00:44:45,452 --> 00:44:48,662 It's, it's the same if we're promoting Bitcoin, it's the same if we're promoting 852 00:44:48,692 --> 00:44:52,652 holistic treatments of, uh, to, to, you know, to treat, you know, your 853 00:44:52,652 --> 00:44:54,542 whatever, your vitamin D deficiency. 854 00:44:54,782 --> 00:44:57,152 All of these things are kind of the same way, is. 855 00:44:57,577 --> 00:44:58,717 This stuff works. 856 00:44:58,987 --> 00:45:03,397 If you stay the course, if you're looking at a short-term fix, this isn't for you. 857 00:45:03,547 --> 00:45:06,967 But if you're looking for a long-term remedy, then this 858 00:45:06,967 --> 00:45:08,047 is the way you want to go. 859 00:45:08,227 --> 00:45:12,067 And so just being honest and tipping your cards, the, the greatest piece 860 00:45:12,067 --> 00:45:15,687 of, of business advice that I, I think I ever give to people is, don't 861 00:45:15,687 --> 00:45:18,037 hold your cards close to your vest. 862 00:45:18,277 --> 00:45:22,657 In business negotiations or whatever I've done in the past, when I just lay 863 00:45:22,657 --> 00:45:27,157 everything out and I tell somebody in a business negotiation what I want and what 864 00:45:27,157 --> 00:45:30,307 I need, and I ask them what do they want and what do they need, if we just lay 865 00:45:30,312 --> 00:45:34,287 the cards out on the table, I found that the best business negotiations happen. 866 00:45:34,587 --> 00:45:38,197 It, it's the, it's the most mutually beneficial exchange that we could 867 00:45:38,197 --> 00:45:42,607 possibly have by telling the other person what I need and them telling me what 868 00:45:42,612 --> 00:45:47,857 I, what, what they need, um, and being honest in the fact that if, if what I'm 869 00:45:48,007 --> 00:45:51,092 providing to them, Isn't a short-term fix. 870 00:45:51,092 --> 00:45:55,412 Isn't, isn't, Hey, this isn't gonna fix what you need right now, but if you, if 871 00:45:55,412 --> 00:45:57,542 you stick with me, we can get you there. 872 00:45:57,842 --> 00:46:03,062 Um, people love authenticity and so to me that's the most powerful form of 873 00:46:03,062 --> 00:46:04,922 marketing ever is, is being authentic. 874 00:46:05,132 --> 00:46:08,302 And I think that that's why it didn't work out for me being in the crypto space. 875 00:46:08,412 --> 00:46:12,542 That was just, it was a, it was a natural filtration process that the crypto space 876 00:46:12,542 --> 00:46:17,402 kicked me out because I didn't like my, my, my, my message wasn't received by 877 00:46:17,402 --> 00:46:19,112 taking a long-term approach to things. 878 00:46:19,382 --> 00:46:24,002 Um, and so I, that's why Bitcoin, the gravity of Bitcoin drew me back 879 00:46:24,007 --> 00:46:30,002 in was because I like long-term real, authentic truth and, uh, 880 00:46:30,512 --> 00:46:32,072 that's what brings me here today. 881 00:46:32,132 --> 00:46:32,312 Yeah. 882 00:46:33,902 --> 00:46:36,992 You know, you've, uh, uh, you said a lot of really good things, so 883 00:46:36,992 --> 00:46:41,102 I feel bad for, uh, for steering in this direction specifically. 884 00:46:41,102 --> 00:46:44,342 But you, you, uh, you, you do infrared sauna only. 885 00:46:45,347 --> 00:46:45,737 Yeah. 886 00:46:45,917 --> 00:46:46,097 Oh no. 887 00:46:46,157 --> 00:46:50,267 So we do, it's a, the three, three spectrum infrared. 888 00:46:50,267 --> 00:46:52,997 So I don't know, are you familiar with, it sounds like you know, your, in like 889 00:46:52,997 --> 00:46:54,497 a little bit about infrared stuff. 890 00:46:54,887 --> 00:46:55,157 Well, 891 00:46:55,367 --> 00:46:59,267 uh, I'm, I'm just saying I, I've, I've got a traditional sauna at 10 meters that way. 892 00:46:59,267 --> 00:47:01,637 And, uh, you know, the, the one where you pour the water 893 00:47:01,642 --> 00:47:02,687 on the stove and everything? 894 00:47:02,687 --> 00:47:02,747 Yeah. 895 00:47:02,927 --> 00:47:03,767 You don't do that one? 896 00:47:04,247 --> 00:47:05,507 We don't do the stone one. 897 00:47:05,517 --> 00:47:05,807 Okay. 898 00:47:05,827 --> 00:47:10,517 Um, we like it pretty much every gym that that's in my area in California, 899 00:47:10,517 --> 00:47:12,227 they, they do, they do the stone saunas. 900 00:47:12,227 --> 00:47:12,287 Yeah. 901 00:47:12,497 --> 00:47:15,347 And so we actually just have a, a lot more people that 902 00:47:15,347 --> 00:47:16,907 gravitate towards the infrared. 903 00:47:17,207 --> 00:47:18,857 Um, it tends to be a little bit quicker. 904 00:47:18,947 --> 00:47:22,277 Um, you start the infrared light penetrates your body a little quicker, 905 00:47:22,277 --> 00:47:26,582 so you, you tend to get a little, uh, uh, More bang for your buck in 906 00:47:26,582 --> 00:47:28,622 terms of a 15 or 30 minute treatment. 907 00:47:28,627 --> 00:47:28,712 Mm-hmm. 908 00:47:29,402 --> 00:47:32,402 Um, and, and there's some other effects that come along with infrared light, 909 00:47:32,462 --> 00:47:33,992 aside from just the heat benefits. 910 00:47:33,992 --> 00:47:37,982 So, um, now of course this is leading to people getting into cold punches 911 00:47:37,982 --> 00:47:39,512 and all this kind of stuff, so yeah, we 912 00:47:41,132 --> 00:47:43,593 sometime We'll, sounds very good. 913 00:47:44,212 --> 00:47:44,632 I'm sorry 914 00:47:44,872 --> 00:47:47,912 about this next question, Brian, but I can't help myself. 915 00:47:47,972 --> 00:47:51,002 Did they tell you about the placebo effect in psychology class? 916 00:47:53,447 --> 00:47:54,497 They Sure, they sure did. 917 00:47:54,497 --> 00:47:55,817 We, we learned about that a lot. 918 00:47:55,817 --> 00:47:55,997 Yeah. 919 00:47:56,557 --> 00:47:59,567 So you, you're, you're not a, you're not a holistic guy. 920 00:47:59,957 --> 00:48:01,337 You got, we got a fiat killer. 921 00:48:01,577 --> 00:48:02,837 Look, look, uh, 922 00:48:03,047 --> 00:48:04,817 the thing is, I'm skeptic to everything. 923 00:48:04,967 --> 00:48:07,397 So I, I don't believe in alternative medicine. 924 00:48:07,727 --> 00:48:10,377 And for the most part, I don't believe in traditional medicine either. 925 00:48:10,967 --> 00:48:14,507 So, because I think it's all, most of it is placebo. 926 00:48:15,257 --> 00:48:16,367 Fair enough, fair enough. 927 00:48:16,487 --> 00:48:16,727 And 928 00:48:16,727 --> 00:48:20,747 to be fair, the placebo effect works and the nocebo effect works. 929 00:48:20,747 --> 00:48:24,257 And the mind, the mind can do wonderful things for the body. 930 00:48:24,527 --> 00:48:26,857 Uh, that's what I, that's what I believe. 931 00:48:26,927 --> 00:48:31,667 Like, and, uh, if you set your mind to something, uh, that, that's way 932 00:48:31,667 --> 00:48:33,197 more powerful than people believe. 933 00:48:33,407 --> 00:48:37,067 Uh, so that's, that's my sort of holistic approach. 934 00:48:37,157 --> 00:48:38,027 And then the rest is 935 00:48:38,027 --> 00:48:38,777 skepticism. 936 00:48:39,302 --> 00:48:40,712 I mean that, who knows? 937 00:48:40,712 --> 00:48:44,312 I mean, yeah, may, maybe it's a placebo effect in order, but when you come 938 00:48:44,312 --> 00:48:47,822 out to Southern California for Pacific Bitcoin, I'm gonna get you feeling good. 939 00:48:47,822 --> 00:48:49,592 So whether it's your mind playing tricks on you. 940 00:48:49,592 --> 00:48:49,682 Yeah. 941 00:48:52,382 --> 00:48:52,742 Nice. 942 00:48:54,492 --> 00:48:54,712 I'm. 943 00:48:55,547 --> 00:48:58,217 Uh, infrared pill you look looking forward 944 00:48:58,427 --> 00:48:58,487 to. 945 00:48:58,487 --> 00:48:59,237 That's a lot. 946 00:48:59,237 --> 00:49:03,107 But I, I think Finland is a more natural environment for 947 00:49:03,107 --> 00:49:04,967 saunas than Southern California. 948 00:49:04,967 --> 00:49:05,417 For sure. 949 00:49:05,897 --> 00:49:06,407 You got it. 950 00:49:06,407 --> 00:49:07,487 We'll, we'll take that one. 951 00:49:08,127 --> 00:49:10,847 We'll, we'll come to California and see you there, but then you 952 00:49:10,847 --> 00:49:13,517 have to come to Finland and, uh, have a, have a nice proper finish 953 00:49:14,727 --> 00:49:15,077 sauna. 954 00:49:15,387 --> 00:49:15,677 Yeah. 955 00:49:16,137 --> 00:49:16,357 Yes. 956 00:49:17,057 --> 00:49:20,987 And in the finished sauna, you also have to get shit-faced, which is another health 957 00:49:20,987 --> 00:49:23,267 treatment that is, uh, traditionally 958 00:49:23,267 --> 00:49:23,717 finished. 959 00:49:23,717 --> 00:49:23,897 Right? 960 00:49:23,897 --> 00:49:24,018 You do. 961 00:49:24,057 --> 00:49:24,357 Is that 962 00:49:24,357 --> 00:49:28,307 really is that I would never think to drink alcohol and then go on. 963 00:49:28,397 --> 00:49:31,007 To me, that sounds like that would be, that'd be awful. 964 00:49:31,037 --> 00:49:32,507 Is that really part of the tradition? 965 00:49:32,627 --> 00:49:33,917 It's semi mandatory. 966 00:49:33,917 --> 00:49:34,157 Yeah. 967 00:49:35,057 --> 00:49:35,327 Yeah. 968 00:49:35,837 --> 00:49:38,057 With a focus on man, mandatory 969 00:49:39,377 --> 00:49:40,937 wife gets into it too, so, you know. 970 00:49:42,392 --> 00:49:46,022 But, uh, hey, you, you've, you've walked into a little den of us jokers, 971 00:49:46,022 --> 00:49:48,032 uh, picking knits here, but, uh, no. 972 00:49:48,782 --> 00:49:51,572 Matt, while you were saying Brian, about kind of like, what, what you do with 973 00:49:51,572 --> 00:49:54,872 the, with the marketing kind of thing, like I'm, I'm interested in how you, you 974 00:49:54,872 --> 00:50:00,232 take that into, uh, Bitcoin in general, like Bitcoin, I, I think, really does 975 00:50:00,232 --> 00:50:02,612 have a marketing problem generally. 976 00:50:02,612 --> 00:50:04,052 And what's your take on that? 977 00:50:04,052 --> 00:50:07,382 Because I, I, there's, there's so many angles to it. 978 00:50:07,382 --> 00:50:09,452 It's like, does Bitcoin have a scaling problem? 979 00:50:09,457 --> 00:50:11,912 Does Bitcoin have a problem with being too toxic? 980 00:50:11,917 --> 00:50:16,292 All all of these sorts of image things, what's your take on it and, 981 00:50:16,292 --> 00:50:17,912 and how are you trying to address. 982 00:50:18,962 --> 00:50:23,822 All of the issues with within Bitcoin's image, I guess, uh, so to say. 983 00:50:23,822 --> 00:50:24,032 Yeah. 984 00:50:24,152 --> 00:50:24,332 Yeah. 985 00:50:24,332 --> 00:50:24,512 Go. 986 00:50:25,412 --> 00:50:26,312 No, that's a great question. 987 00:50:26,492 --> 00:50:30,362 I think it's just, it comes down to, to sales 1 0 1 and I think that a lot 988 00:50:30,362 --> 00:50:33,242 of Bitcoin purists hate saying, well, we don't need salespeople in Bitcoin. 989 00:50:33,242 --> 00:50:36,072 Well, that was, everybody made fun of me the first day of, of the Miami 990 00:50:36,072 --> 00:50:39,362 conference cuz I was dressed up in a suit and Mateo told me I looked 991 00:50:39,362 --> 00:50:40,742 like I was an insurance salesman. 992 00:50:40,742 --> 00:50:44,552 So, so maybe I'm the guy that doesn't mind looking like the, the salesy person. 993 00:50:44,552 --> 00:50:47,252 But I think that that 1 0 1 of sales. 994 00:50:47,502 --> 00:50:50,892 Is, is asking questions and figuring out where people are. 995 00:50:50,922 --> 00:50:55,092 So I've been able to do, uh, booths at Freedom rallies 996 00:50:55,092 --> 00:50:56,142 here in Southern California. 997 00:50:56,142 --> 00:50:58,632 I mean, we're, we live in California, so we're, you know, we have a 998 00:50:58,632 --> 00:51:01,902 lot of, we have a lot of, uh, people that are tyranny minded. 999 00:51:01,902 --> 00:51:04,632 They love, they love good old Gavin Newsom, but we have a, we have 1000 00:51:04,637 --> 00:51:09,042 pockets of people that love liberty, and for some reason those people 1001 00:51:09,282 --> 00:51:10,602 just don't know about Bitcoin yet. 1002 00:51:10,602 --> 00:51:14,022 It's crazy to me that I, I assume when I go to one of these Liberty rallies and 1003 00:51:14,022 --> 00:51:17,232 I set up a Bitcoin table and I'm just like, here's some information on Bitcoin. 1004 00:51:17,442 --> 00:51:19,002 I figure people are gonna come up and love me. 1005 00:51:19,002 --> 00:51:21,822 But everybody comes up and they're like, this is the market of the beast. 1006 00:51:21,882 --> 00:51:23,622 This is the one world currency of Revel. 1007 00:51:23,712 --> 00:51:24,902 I mean, it is, it is crazy. 1008 00:51:25,042 --> 00:51:26,472 And I'm a Christian Guy. 1009 00:51:26,472 --> 00:51:30,552 I like, I I, I can speak the language, but it's crazy to me that this 1010 00:51:30,552 --> 00:51:35,532 is the reaction people have to it anyways, so it's the, the, the image 1011 00:51:35,532 --> 00:51:37,182 that we have in the Bitcoin space. 1012 00:51:37,532 --> 00:51:39,272 It, it changes from group to group. 1013 00:51:39,482 --> 00:51:42,602 When I go and talk to these, these liberty minded people, and they, they 1014 00:51:42,602 --> 00:51:44,132 wanna know why Bitcoin has value. 1015 00:51:44,312 --> 00:51:49,532 And so me explaining the, the Austrian economic answer of, of market value 1016 00:51:49,532 --> 00:51:53,342 and marginal utility value, like that just falls on deaf ears to them. 1017 00:51:53,672 --> 00:51:53,912 And so, 1018 00:51:53,912 --> 00:51:55,292 subject subjective theory, 1019 00:51:55,292 --> 00:51:56,502 value, subject, subjective. 1020 00:51:56,502 --> 00:51:56,702 Yeah. 1021 00:51:56,702 --> 00:51:57,362 There you go. 1022 00:51:57,362 --> 00:51:57,782 Excuse me. 1023 00:51:58,112 --> 00:52:02,732 Um, so subjective value, it's like th that just falls on deaf ears. 1024 00:52:02,732 --> 00:52:04,622 And so I need to talk about. 1025 00:52:05,012 --> 00:52:06,992 Immutability and censorship resistance. 1026 00:52:06,992 --> 00:52:07,232 Right. 1027 00:52:07,232 --> 00:52:10,742 I immediately will go to, we have to talk about the Canadian trucker rally. 1028 00:52:10,742 --> 00:52:12,602 Like they don't care about scarcity. 1029 00:52:12,632 --> 00:52:14,162 Like, that group doesn't care about scarcity. 1030 00:52:14,162 --> 00:52:16,922 But when I'm talking to my, my stepfather, that's a gold bug. 1031 00:52:17,372 --> 00:52:19,652 Uh, then I need to talk about scarcity. 1032 00:52:19,652 --> 00:52:19,892 Right? 1033 00:52:19,892 --> 00:52:23,912 So I think that that's, I think Bitcoiners just need to be willing and ready to be 1034 00:52:23,912 --> 00:52:26,432 flexible in, in tailoring what we say. 1035 00:52:26,432 --> 00:52:29,162 There's, there's so many components to Bitcoin that I think get 1036 00:52:29,162 --> 00:52:30,992 lost on the general population. 1037 00:52:31,172 --> 00:52:34,232 Um, we geek out on it and we think that, man, there's, there's, there's 1038 00:52:34,232 --> 00:52:36,032 so many things that Bitcoin solves. 1039 00:52:36,037 --> 00:52:38,192 There's so many really interesting facets to it. 1040 00:52:38,197 --> 00:52:42,302 The, the, the difficulty adjustment of Bitcoin mining is, wow, that's such a 1041 00:52:42,512 --> 00:52:46,082 cool innovation that, like if you study Bitcoin mining, this is fascinating, but. 1042 00:52:46,747 --> 00:52:48,517 But my mom doesn't want to hear about that. 1043 00:52:48,577 --> 00:52:50,467 And so how do I appeal to my mom? 1044 00:52:50,467 --> 00:52:54,877 Or how do I appeal, again, back talking to the altcoins, like how do we appeal 1045 00:52:54,882 --> 00:53:00,547 to the Altcoin community when this 21 year old kid got into to Doge because he 1046 00:53:00,547 --> 00:53:03,367 could buy a million Dogecoin for 12 bucks. 1047 00:53:03,372 --> 00:53:05,017 Like how do you, how do you talk to those people? 1048 00:53:05,532 --> 00:53:08,952 And so I think being able to tailor a Bitcoin message for each of 1049 00:53:08,952 --> 00:53:10,032 those people is really important. 1050 00:53:10,032 --> 00:53:11,322 So that's kind of how I wrote the book. 1051 00:53:11,352 --> 00:53:16,752 That's a Bitcoin evangelism is, is here's, here's different, uh, ways to sharpen 1052 00:53:16,757 --> 00:53:19,302 your argument for the Dogecoin guy. 1053 00:53:19,362 --> 00:53:22,422 And that's as easy as telling them about SATs. 1054 00:53:22,692 --> 00:53:25,902 I was pretty shocked at the Bitcoin Miami conference about how many 1055 00:53:26,412 --> 00:53:29,502 crypto people came up and, uh, they said, oh, how much is your book? 1056 00:53:29,502 --> 00:53:31,272 And I said, oh, it's 75,000 SATs. 1057 00:53:31,632 --> 00:53:32,772 And they go, what's a sat? 1058 00:53:33,102 --> 00:53:36,732 And I said, oh, a SAT is a piece of a Bitcoin. 1059 00:53:36,732 --> 00:53:39,792 And here they are at the biggest Bitcoin conference in the world 1060 00:53:40,062 --> 00:53:41,022 and they haven't heard of a sat. 1061 00:53:41,027 --> 00:53:42,913 And guess what I asked this guy, I said, well, what do you do? 1062 00:53:43,222 --> 00:53:45,432 He goes, I work, I work for an exchange. 1063 00:53:46,212 --> 00:53:50,652 And a guy that works for an exchange, he actually makes his living in this space 1064 00:53:50,652 --> 00:53:53,112 somehow didn't understand what a SAT was. 1065 00:53:53,112 --> 00:53:57,722 And so the, the person that wants a lot of something, SAT's appeal 1066 00:53:57,722 --> 00:53:59,702 to them in, in, in, in a major way. 1067 00:53:59,702 --> 00:54:03,212 So I, I think this fundamentally comes down to the argument of, I know 1068 00:54:03,212 --> 00:54:06,812 there's, there's Bitcoin purists that, that say, we, we don't need those 1069 00:54:06,812 --> 00:54:08,522 type of people in the space, right? 1070 00:54:08,522 --> 00:54:11,312 We don't, we don't need the guy that just wants a lot of something. 1071 00:54:11,432 --> 00:54:14,942 If he wants a million Doge, let him have his doge and he can be on his merry way. 1072 00:54:15,072 --> 00:54:19,502 Um, and so I I I, I'm of the belief that I do want those people in the space. 1073 00:54:19,562 --> 00:54:21,872 I want them to, to touch some Bitcoin. 1074 00:54:21,872 --> 00:54:25,982 I want them to touch SATs because I think that that's a gateway drug into them fully 1075 00:54:25,982 --> 00:54:27,812 understanding the, the rest of the space. 1076 00:54:28,172 --> 00:54:31,922 Um, and so I think having an argument or a questions prepared for those 1077 00:54:31,922 --> 00:54:35,522 type of people, a line of reasoning, a logos that appeals to those type of 1078 00:54:35,527 --> 00:54:37,562 people, um, is, is really important. 1079 00:54:37,567 --> 00:54:39,812 And, and that's, again, that's the message of my book. 1080 00:54:39,817 --> 00:54:43,862 And that's, it's, it breaks those different, those different, uh, uh, you 1081 00:54:43,862 --> 00:54:47,102 know, sections down based on different groups of people you might interact with. 1082 00:54:48,152 --> 00:54:48,362 Y 1083 00:54:48,362 --> 00:54:51,782 you know what, Brian, I, I kind of wanna back you up a little bit here on this one 1084 00:54:51,782 --> 00:54:56,927 point too, because, uh, It's not true that someone can't get into crypto and actually 1085 00:54:56,927 --> 00:55:02,057 understand Bitcoin because my, my own journey with it, I, I played around with 1086 00:55:02,117 --> 00:55:07,757 Ethereum for a little bit in 2017 because it's what was going around my office. 1087 00:55:07,757 --> 00:55:12,287 I don't know why my office thought Ethereum was cool, but whatever. 1088 00:55:12,287 --> 00:55:16,397 Like, it's, it's what I heard about and it crashed and I forgot about it. 1089 00:55:16,397 --> 00:55:20,897 And then crypto is going up back in 2021, whatever. 1090 00:55:21,587 --> 00:55:24,977 So, so I check on my Coinbase account and oh my goodness, my $30 1091 00:55:24,977 --> 00:55:26,627 of Ethereum is a lot more money. 1092 00:55:27,347 --> 00:55:28,817 And, and I start playing around with it. 1093 00:55:28,817 --> 00:55:32,297 And I get on like Reddit and, and a bunch of other places. 1094 00:55:32,302 --> 00:55:33,287 Not Twitter, though. 1095 00:55:33,677 --> 00:55:35,207 Twitter, uh, that's probably good. 1096 00:55:35,207 --> 00:55:37,487 Actually at that time I would've gotten into crypto Twitter. 1097 00:55:37,487 --> 00:55:40,727 Not Bitcoin, Twitter, but I got into Reddit and I went to do 1098 00:55:40,732 --> 00:55:42,497 the cryptocurrency sub Reddit. 1099 00:55:42,502 --> 00:55:47,237 And honestly, the only reason that I went into Bitcoin at all was because I kept 1100 00:55:47,237 --> 00:55:50,357 on seeing people say, okay, you gotta have a little bit of Bitcoin because. 1101 00:55:51,557 --> 00:55:52,727 That's kind of the safe thing. 1102 00:55:52,727 --> 00:55:54,137 You gotta have that in your portfolio. 1103 00:55:54,137 --> 00:55:57,827 Whatever I did, I did all the things that a, a new crypto person should do, have 1104 00:55:57,827 --> 00:55:59,717 a balanced portfolio, whatever it is. 1105 00:56:00,137 --> 00:56:02,297 And the, and the thing about it was, I, like, I thought I was 1106 00:56:02,357 --> 00:56:05,537 doing that in a, in a good way. 1107 00:56:05,537 --> 00:56:07,577 And I, I had no idea what Bitcoin was. 1108 00:56:07,967 --> 00:56:08,987 Any idea about it. 1109 00:56:08,987 --> 00:56:11,957 And the, the, the thing was of course, I, I went down the 1110 00:56:11,957 --> 00:56:13,727 bitcoin rabbit hole properly. 1111 00:56:13,727 --> 00:56:16,727 I found proper people that were talking about it in a good way. 1112 00:56:17,267 --> 00:56:22,637 But it, it took that to get me from baseline crypto to Bitcoin. 1113 00:56:23,237 --> 00:56:27,467 And I mean, now I'm a balls deep toxic maxi, like, you know, don't get me wrong. 1114 00:56:27,677 --> 00:56:31,517 But, but the, the, the thing here is that like I, it really, you, you can 1115 00:56:31,517 --> 00:56:35,147 be super ignorant about Bitcoin and be, and still be into crypto otherwise. 1116 00:56:35,147 --> 00:56:35,387 Mm-hmm. 1117 00:56:35,472 --> 00:56:39,827 And even be into having some Bitcoin in your portfolio just because it's 1118 00:56:39,827 --> 00:56:41,297 the so-called blue chip or something. 1119 00:56:41,297 --> 00:56:41,747 So, yeah. 1120 00:56:41,747 --> 00:56:46,187 I, I, I think it, I think it is important to, to try and bridge that 1121 00:56:46,217 --> 00:56:47,307 gap to the, to the crypto people. 1122 00:56:48,062 --> 00:56:48,422 Yeah. 1123 00:56:48,482 --> 00:56:53,162 Uh, well, just to clarify what I was saying before, I think the creators of 1124 00:56:53,162 --> 00:56:56,822 the share coins all know about Bitcoin, not, not the people buying them. 1125 00:56:56,912 --> 00:57:00,332 That's, that's, uh, most people buying them have no clue. 1126 00:57:00,542 --> 00:57:05,252 Like, uh, they wouldn't be buying them if they had, it's like, like, uh, 1127 00:57:05,257 --> 00:57:09,032 socialists who, who, who understood economics wouldn't be socialist. 1128 00:57:09,032 --> 00:57:10,022 It's about the same thing. 1129 00:57:10,112 --> 00:57:10,322 Right. 1130 00:57:13,542 --> 00:57:14,612 I, I have a question for you. 1131 00:57:14,612 --> 00:57:17,862 I brought this up the other night, and, uh, it was, yeah, I just, 1132 00:57:17,902 --> 00:57:20,432 I think it's, it's a fascinating thought experiment for me. 1133 00:57:20,432 --> 00:57:22,172 It's like I, me, me trying to really learn. 1134 00:57:22,622 --> 00:57:29,402 So if we go back to, to, to January of 2009, would you consider 1135 00:57:29,972 --> 00:57:31,472 Bitcoin a shit coin at that point? 1136 00:57:32,447 --> 00:57:35,867 Was was, was there, was there certain markers or is there a certain point 1137 00:57:35,867 --> 00:57:40,067 where, where bitcoin maybe was a shit coin and it no longer is, or 1138 00:57:40,127 --> 00:57:41,567 how, how, how would you define that? 1139 00:57:42,227 --> 00:57:42,527 Yeah. 1140 00:57:42,767 --> 00:57:47,027 I, I wasn't aware of Bitcoin in 2009, so, so I have no 1141 00:57:47,027 --> 00:57:49,067 like, personal story with that. 1142 00:57:49,072 --> 00:57:51,167 But when I discovered Bitcoin, I was skeptic. 1143 00:57:52,597 --> 00:57:58,387 and then I took a course about digital currencies in the plural form, and I 1144 00:57:58,387 --> 00:58:03,337 got to understand like the basics of the elliptic curve, cryptography and 1145 00:58:03,342 --> 00:58:04,687 all of this and the maths behind it. 1146 00:58:04,687 --> 00:58:07,867 And I, uh, studied quite a lot of maths in my life. 1147 00:58:07,872 --> 00:58:12,307 So, so I understand stuff like that fairly, fairly easily. 1148 00:58:13,247 --> 00:58:18,647 what what always puzzled me though was like, uh, if there's, if the thing is 1149 00:58:18,647 --> 00:58:23,492 that, uh, If the value proposition has something to do with this thing being 1150 00:58:23,492 --> 00:58:29,672 finite, how then can we create, how, how could copies of it ever work then? 1151 00:58:29,912 --> 00:58:34,862 Because all of it is, it's a number on a computer, so making copies of that, it's 1152 00:58:34,867 --> 00:58:36,872 just like you can make infinite copies. 1153 00:58:36,872 --> 00:58:41,342 It's like the, the regression there. 1154 00:58:41,552 --> 00:58:45,422 I I, I never, I never bought that, that narrative. 1155 00:58:45,842 --> 00:58:50,372 So, but, but, but then again, I was still skeptic towards Bitcoin be, 1156 00:58:50,582 --> 00:58:57,732 because to me, like either, I always thought either Bitcoin work, either 1157 00:58:57,962 --> 00:58:59,492 Bitcoin works or none of it works. 1158 00:59:00,752 --> 00:59:01,652 Uh, so. 1159 00:59:02,177 --> 00:59:06,047 And I'm sort of still there because there's, there's a small chance 1160 00:59:06,047 --> 00:59:10,547 that Bitcoin, for some odd reason, that I can't foresee will just 1161 00:59:10,607 --> 00:59:12,497 break down and not function anymore. 1162 00:59:13,037 --> 00:59:18,107 But if that happens, I'm still happy because I have this fantastic network of 1163 00:59:18,112 --> 00:59:24,287 people, uh, honest people around the world that I, that I, I know people, the best 1164 00:59:24,287 --> 00:59:26,777 people on every continent at this point. 1165 00:59:26,867 --> 00:59:30,107 But, uh, so, so it was all worth it anyway. 1166 00:59:30,647 --> 00:59:33,707 Having, having said that though, the, the thing that really convinced 1167 00:59:33,707 --> 00:59:38,977 me about Bitcoin being sufficiently decentralized to actually pull off rules 1168 00:59:38,977 --> 00:59:45,767 without rulers was during the, the, when the seg two x hard fork was denied. 1169 00:59:46,457 --> 00:59:50,567 Because for, for those you that don't know, there's a quite a good book 1170 00:59:50,567 --> 00:59:52,817 called The Block Size Wars about this. 1171 00:59:53,027 --> 00:59:56,327 Uh, I do not agree with that description of events. 1172 00:59:57,512 --> 01:00:02,252 Fully, but I say I agree with like 80% of the description of what happened 1173 01:00:02,252 --> 01:00:07,112 in that book, uh, that the guy who wrote it is still sort of trying to 1174 01:00:07,112 --> 01:00:11,582 keep this, that what we did might have been wrong and what the other 1175 01:00:11,582 --> 01:00:13,232 side might have had some merit to it. 1176 01:00:13,292 --> 01:00:19,112 I view it a slightly differently because, so there was an upgrade 1177 01:00:19,382 --> 01:00:23,462 Bitcoin called Segregated Witness, which all the users wanted because that 1178 01:00:23,462 --> 01:00:27,032 would enable the Lightning Network in the future and, and stuff like that. 1179 01:00:27,512 --> 01:00:33,043 So everyone sort of wanted that except for a few, Well, very wealthy players 1180 01:00:33,223 --> 01:00:39,356 who, uh, who, um, could make more money from, from mining if, if SegWit wasn't 1181 01:00:39,361 --> 01:00:42,236 there to, to give the short version here. 1182 01:00:42,236 --> 01:00:45,476 There was something called ASIC Boost, which SegWit would sort 1183 01:00:45,476 --> 01:00:49,856 of deny, and this debates of whether that was ever used or not. 1184 01:00:50,246 --> 01:00:53,126 And I'm not the most technical person, so I don't, I wouldn't 1185 01:00:53,546 --> 01:00:55,136 want to go too deep into that. 1186 01:00:55,616 --> 01:00:59,636 But then, uh, there was a big, uh, cabal of the biggest. 1187 01:00:59,906 --> 01:01:03,656 Biggest companies in Bitcoin at the time, uh, gathering in New York, 1188 01:01:03,866 --> 01:01:08,456 uh, to form an agreement on the, the, the roadmap for the future. 1189 01:01:08,456 --> 01:01:09,266 What, what to do. 1190 01:01:09,266 --> 01:01:13,856 And they decided that we're, we're first going to implement SEG and then increase 1191 01:01:14,306 --> 01:01:16,016 the block size by a hundred percent. 1192 01:01:16,886 --> 01:01:20,546 Uh, so the second hard fork was called, or, or Segway itself was 1193 01:01:20,546 --> 01:01:22,016 not a hard fork, it was a soft fork. 1194 01:01:22,526 --> 01:01:26,936 But then there was a proposed so, uh, hard fork called SEG two X, which 1195 01:01:26,936 --> 01:01:31,616 would, uh, increase the block size, double the block size, uh, because 1196 01:01:31,621 --> 01:01:33,926 fees were getting high in 2017. 1197 01:01:34,346 --> 01:01:36,747 Also, uh, similar to what's happening now. 1198 01:01:37,496 --> 01:01:43,646 And, uh, it's kind of fascinating how the narratives from 2017 1199 01:01:43,646 --> 01:01:44,936 seem to repeat themselves. 1200 01:01:44,936 --> 01:01:48,596 Now this, you know, documents on the blockchain and all, all this 1201 01:01:48,596 --> 01:01:52,436 stuff that was going on back then too, and it was proven wrong and, 1202 01:01:52,586 --> 01:01:54,596 you know, discard that and move on. 1203 01:01:54,926 --> 01:02:01,646 So, so, uh, but anyway, um, The, the two x hard fork never happened 1204 01:02:01,646 --> 01:02:03,086 because the users didn't want it. 1205 01:02:03,086 --> 01:02:07,826 All the nodes signaled the, or a sufficient amount of nodes signaled 1206 01:02:07,826 --> 01:02:09,326 that they didn't want this upgrade. 1207 01:02:09,716 --> 01:02:14,636 So after a while, the mi, the miners who had, like, they were 1208 01:02:14,636 --> 01:02:20,156 sitting on like 99% of the wealth in Bitcoin, uh, at least the fee at 12. 1209 01:02:20,666 --> 01:02:26,546 Uh, and, and they, they still had to bow down to whatever the users 1210 01:02:26,546 --> 01:02:30,386 wanted because they knew if they, if they wouldn't do what the, the node 1211 01:02:30,386 --> 01:02:34,616 runners told them to, to do, they would've, uh, they would've lost 1212 01:02:34,616 --> 01:02:37,766 their business completely because Bill Bitcoin would've failed at that point. 1213 01:02:38,366 --> 01:02:45,532 So, so the, the hard fork never happened, which to me was, was proof enough, that, 1214 01:02:45,772 --> 01:02:53,902 that, uh, The, the users were actually in control, or, or rather, the, everyone in 1215 01:02:53,902 --> 01:03:00,502 the network was in control and it, it was resistance resistant to change in, in that 1216 01:03:00,502 --> 01:03:05,242 crucial way that was needed because what, what the two x hard for would've done is 1217 01:03:05,452 --> 01:03:07,492 that it would've set the precedent for. 1218 01:03:08,977 --> 01:03:12,727 Hard forks like that happening over and over again in the future. 1219 01:03:13,387 --> 01:03:16,447 So then they could have just doubled the block size and doubled it and doubled 1220 01:03:16,447 --> 01:03:21,397 it and doubled it, which in the long run leads to people not, not being 1221 01:03:21,397 --> 01:03:23,137 able to afford to run their own nodes. 1222 01:03:23,767 --> 01:03:26,447 And when people do, do not afford to run their own nodes, because 1223 01:03:26,447 --> 01:03:31,447 they're, they need these giant hard drives, uh, which are costly. 1224 01:03:31,987 --> 01:03:35,197 Uh, then Bitcoin is not decentralized anymore. 1225 01:03:35,257 --> 01:03:42,787 And then, uh, then they're a small elite forms that can make 1226 01:03:42,787 --> 01:03:44,047 decisions for everyone else. 1227 01:03:44,267 --> 01:03:47,017 Uh, so it becomes much more vulnerable to text. 1228 01:03:47,410 --> 01:03:54,460 so, so that's the denial of two x was when bitcoin, when I discovered 1229 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,730 Bitcoin because I, I think all of this is a personal journey. 1230 01:03:57,730 --> 01:03:59,800 hyperbitcoinization is a personal thing. 1231 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,100 The discovery of Bitcoin is a, is a personal thing. 1232 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,430 It wasn't created by Satoshi. 1233 01:04:06,430 --> 01:04:08,420 It emerged from the community. 1234 01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:14,020 That was a product of Satoshi's actions, but also of other people's actions. 1235 01:04:14,620 --> 01:04:19,690 And the white paper is just a tiny part of Bitcoin's history and how 1236 01:04:19,690 --> 01:04:24,070 it emerges from smaller parts in, into becoming this bigger thing. 1237 01:04:24,340 --> 01:04:28,330 Um, yeah, so, so that's the way I view it. 1238 01:04:28,420 --> 01:04:33,655 Um, And, uh, that's, that's the story of how I got. 1239 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,600 How I got to a point in the rabbit hole where I couldn't 1240 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,970 climb up of it's out it again. 1241 01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:43,900 Um, the seg two x hard fork failing. 1242 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,850 It's, yeah, it's fascinating how something failing could, could be so compelling. 1243 01:04:48,855 --> 01:04:52,690 But yeah, I, I agree that, that, that seemed like a pretty, a pretty, uh, 1244 01:04:52,695 --> 01:04:56,290 substantial moment in the history of Bitcoin and yeah, probably if you had 1245 01:04:56,290 --> 01:04:59,320 to point to, to one period of time that. 1246 01:04:59,745 --> 01:05:05,625 Showed Bitcoin's resilience was, was that because I think that it was really 1247 01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:09,855 easy to gravitate towards the Segway two x for a lot of people, which, you know, 1248 01:05:09,855 --> 01:05:14,445 ended up being Bitcoin cash because the, the, their, their ar their arguments 1249 01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:18,766 sat, anybody that had a kind of a fiat mindset would've gravitated towards that. 1250 01:05:19,005 --> 01:05:19,275 Right. 1251 01:05:19,515 --> 01:05:23,475 Faster, faster transactions and, you know Yeah. 1252 01:05:23,535 --> 01:05:26,265 More profitability and, you know, they, all the, all the arguments 1253 01:05:26,265 --> 01:05:28,995 they were making were, were, were sounded very compelling if you 1254 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,165 had a, uh, a, a short time horizon or, or a high time preference. 1255 01:05:33,495 --> 01:05:37,645 Um, the, the de node operators through that process really kind of took the, 1256 01:05:37,905 --> 01:05:40,995 the long view and like you said, said we're gonna keep the block size, the 1257 01:05:40,995 --> 01:05:45,135 block size smaller so that we can continue to run these nodes so that 1258 01:05:45,135 --> 01:05:49,605 people don't have to outsource these to Amazon web services or what, whatever. 1259 01:05:49,965 --> 01:05:50,235 So, 1260 01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:52,030 Yeah. 1261 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:57,700 Um, I, I replied to a, a, uh, clip of Eric Weinstein, uh, talking 1262 01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:58,960 about Bitcoin this morning. 1263 01:05:59,530 --> 01:06:06,220 Uh, and how I disagreed with, with almost everything he said, uh, be because 1264 01:06:06,220 --> 01:06:09,660 I felt I, I had to because someone was wrong on the internet, you know? 1265 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,400 So he said, first, he said that you are all here because of a white paper. 1266 01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:19,270 I mean, uh, I'd love to have Eric Weinstein on the pod someday. 1267 01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:23,440 I, I, I, I like the guy a lot, and this is nothing personal against him, but this 1268 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,070 is just a reply to his points because I think I have a different perspective. 1269 01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,160 He said that we're, we're all here because of a white paper, 1270 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:31,960 which I don't think is true. 1271 01:06:32,050 --> 01:06:37,510 Like the white paper is only, uh, a tiny part of, of Bitcoin's history, as I said. 1272 01:06:37,630 --> 01:06:42,730 And, uh, then, then he said, uh, Uh, we, we need to stop 1273 01:06:42,730 --> 01:06:44,740 pretending that Bitcoin is perfect. 1274 01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,430 And what he misses there is that Bitcoin never needed to be perfect. 1275 01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:50,830 It just needed to be good enough to last forever. 1276 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:52,960 Which of my is one of my favorites? 1277 01:06:53,020 --> 01:06:54,220 Tomer Strolight quotes. 1278 01:06:54,730 --> 01:06:56,230 Uh, so that's the thing. 1279 01:06:56,230 --> 01:07:01,000 Uh, you, you reach this point where it's good enough and then that lasts forever. 1280 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:01,810 And that's the point. 1281 01:07:01,810 --> 01:07:04,210 It doesn't change like it sies. 1282 01:07:04,570 --> 01:07:08,650 Uh, so, and, and then he said that we still need to innovate. 1283 01:07:08,650 --> 01:07:12,220 Innovation is, uh, crucial to this surviving, and it's not, 1284 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,660 uh, lack of innovation is, in a way, resistance to change is way 1285 01:07:16,660 --> 01:07:17,980 more important than innovation. 1286 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,180 We can innovate, innovate on layers on top of it, and we can in, but 1287 01:07:22,420 --> 01:07:26,350 we want the base layer to stay as static as absolutely possible. 1288 01:07:26,980 --> 01:07:31,300 So, so, uh, and then says in order to, to, uh, for. 1289 01:07:33,010 --> 01:07:37,780 To, to provide societal freedom and not only personal freedom, and I think 1290 01:07:37,780 --> 01:07:42,430 that's oxymoronic because I think society is made out of a people and personal 1291 01:07:42,430 --> 01:07:47,380 freedom is like, you can't have societal freedoms without personal freedoms. 1292 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:47,870 Right. 1293 01:07:48,370 --> 01:07:50,050 It always starts with individual. 1294 01:07:50,380 --> 01:07:55,000 I'm an anarchist or Konsensus, so, so there's no societal freedom 1295 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,160 without individual freedoms first. 1296 01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:58,150 Yeah. 1297 01:07:58,210 --> 01:08:03,430 And, and then he says like, uh, uh, uh, claims that Bitcoin is, uh, you know, 1298 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:08,740 if people know you have Bitcoin, they can come home and, and do the $5 or $20 1299 01:08:08,740 --> 01:08:12,820 wrench attack and, and, and threaten you and take all your stuff, but. 1300 01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:14,590 What he misses there. 1301 01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,670 Uh, this sounds like an attack on Eric, but it isn't, it's really just 1302 01:08:18,675 --> 01:08:22,390 replying to these points because I think there's, there's a lot of confusion here. 1303 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:28,840 The, the thing is, you are being attacked right now with a, with a very cheap 1304 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,820 wrench at all times because someone is allowed to run a money printer. 1305 01:08:34,090 --> 01:08:34,210 Mm-hmm. 1306 01:08:34,450 --> 01:08:38,110 And all further on top of that, you, you need to pay taxes, 1307 01:08:38,110 --> 01:08:39,400 otherwise you go to jail. 1308 01:08:39,405 --> 01:08:39,730 Mm-hmm. 1309 01:08:39,820 --> 01:08:41,170 So this is already happening. 1310 01:08:41,530 --> 01:08:42,760 Fiat has that problem with. 1311 01:08:43,865 --> 01:08:46,595 Bitcoin makes violence way less profitable. 1312 01:08:46,745 --> 01:08:46,835 Mm-hmm. 1313 01:08:47,075 --> 01:08:50,915 Because when you cannot know when, uh, how much another person has, or, 1314 01:08:50,915 --> 01:08:54,755 and you cannot take it, uh, by force very easily because the person can 1315 01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,485 give up a fraction of their Bitcoin and not tell you about the rest. 1316 01:08:57,575 --> 01:08:57,635 Yeah. 1317 01:08:58,235 --> 01:09:02,195 The, the, the better choice for you as the attacker is to just provide 1318 01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,655 something of value to the person and get something of value back. 1319 01:09:05,225 --> 01:09:09,335 So, so it, it moves the shelling point of violence in that, in that sense. 1320 01:09:10,295 --> 01:09:13,085 And Fiat does not, Fiat does the opposite. 1321 01:09:13,090 --> 01:09:18,215 It's, it's extremely easy to take stuff from people in fiat, especially if 1322 01:09:18,220 --> 01:09:19,915 they have credit cards and debit cards. 1323 01:09:20,355 --> 01:09:22,725 Tracking every single payment they do. 1324 01:09:22,995 --> 01:09:28,725 Then a centralized authority has all the information, uh, a about 1325 01:09:28,725 --> 01:09:30,735 all of your financial transactions. 1326 01:09:30,735 --> 01:09:35,805 They, they, they can and are being violent to you and 1327 01:09:35,805 --> 01:09:37,665 stealing your stuff all the time. 1328 01:09:37,785 --> 01:09:40,725 So you're not, you're not living in peace. 1329 01:09:40,755 --> 01:09:44,115 You're, you are living in a, in a perpetual war mm-hmm. 1330 01:09:44,445 --> 01:09:46,185 That the government wages against you. 1331 01:09:46,225 --> 01:09:46,515 Yeah. 1332 01:09:46,695 --> 01:09:48,345 You're being violated against. 1333 01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:53,030 Every single microsecond because someone has a mic, uh, a money printer. 1334 01:09:53,390 --> 01:09:56,330 That's the main reason, and that's the problem that Bitcoin solves. 1335 01:09:56,570 --> 01:09:57,890 So yeah, just wanted 1336 01:09:57,890 --> 01:10:02,360 to ramp there for what their, their vi their violence doesn't need to be perfect. 1337 01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:03,770 It just needs to last forever. 1338 01:10:03,775 --> 01:10:03,860 Right. 1339 01:10:03,930 --> 01:10:04,420 Exactly. 1340 01:10:04,420 --> 01:10:06,141 And that's what Exactly, and that's what they've done. 1341 01:10:06,370 --> 01:10:08,340 They've figured out full of violence. 1342 01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:08,900 Yeah. 1343 01:10:08,905 --> 01:10:12,020 That, that, that's just perpetual and it's below the surface and it's 1344 01:10:12,020 --> 01:10:16,850 constantly simmering, not below the balance, best riding the nads. 1345 01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:20,690 Um, so, but yeah, I mean, to your point, I think this is one of the 1346 01:10:20,690 --> 01:10:23,870 most compelling things that Yeah, when I, I find that this is a more 1347 01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:27,440 interesting talking point for the, the gold bug or the fiat minded person 1348 01:10:27,740 --> 01:10:29,780 that maybe is a little bit wealthier. 1349 01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:31,820 They said, well, yeah, $5 wrench attack. 1350 01:10:31,820 --> 01:10:35,240 I like that you've added the inflation into the wrench attacks and now it's $20. 1351 01:10:35,570 --> 01:10:39,740 Um, but, but yeah, they say, well, if somebody puts a gun to my head, 1352 01:10:40,065 --> 01:10:43,485 All my, they, they know that all my Bitcoin could just be on, you 1353 01:10:43,485 --> 01:10:45,195 know, my, my seed signer somewhere. 1354 01:10:45,435 --> 01:10:47,175 And I said, yeah, you know, I'll bring up the points. 1355 01:10:47,175 --> 01:10:51,495 Like you said, well, of course you need to have your, your, your dummy one, right? 1356 01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:53,805 You need to have your one that has a thousand dollars worth of 1357 01:10:53,805 --> 01:10:56,955 Bitcoin or what, you know, has, has two, 2 million satoshis on it. 1358 01:10:56,955 --> 01:10:57,496 You give that one over. 1359 01:10:57,705 --> 01:10:59,985 So obviously there's, there's, there's things that you can put into 1360 01:10:59,985 --> 01:11:03,765 your, your, your protection plan, but they need to understand that. 1361 01:11:04,340 --> 01:11:08,300 It doesn't make sense to rob somebody for Bitcoin in the same way that it would 1362 01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:11,360 make sense if you have a safe in your house with a hundred thousand dollars 1363 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:16,310 of fiat, uh, that that actually could be a very lucrative, lucrative theft. 1364 01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:16,610 Right? 1365 01:11:16,730 --> 01:11:19,970 They're actually incentivized to kill me because as soon as they pull the trigger 1366 01:11:19,970 --> 01:11:24,350 on that gun, they have an unlimited amount of time to search through my property 1367 01:11:24,350 --> 01:11:27,590 or search through my residence to find that safe that's under the floorboards. 1368 01:11:27,590 --> 01:11:31,010 They will given enough time, they will eventually find that safe and 1369 01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:32,480 they'll be able to extract that value. 1370 01:11:32,690 --> 01:11:36,290 But if they have a gun to my head and I never gave them my seed phrase, 1371 01:11:36,620 --> 01:11:40,410 then they've automatically lost the ability to access my funds. 1372 01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:44,390 So them pulling the trigger, disqualifies them from being able to 1373 01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:48,620 perform that theft in the same way that it actually frees them to roam 1374 01:11:48,620 --> 01:11:52,730 my property, to find my funds in, in, in a fiat sense or in a gold sense. 1375 01:11:52,730 --> 01:11:54,080 If I have a stash of gold in my house. 1376 01:11:54,085 --> 01:11:54,920 It's the same thing. 1377 01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:58,610 And so, uh, Bitcoin has this built in protection that. 1378 01:11:59,475 --> 01:12:03,675 I'm the, as soon as you blow my brains, my brains were the only thing that, 1379 01:12:03,675 --> 01:12:05,535 that, that had access to those coins. 1380 01:12:06,375 --> 01:12:06,645 Yeah. 1381 01:12:06,645 --> 01:12:10,185 And uh, at the end of the day, all of the bitcoins are in someone's head. 1382 01:12:10,755 --> 01:12:14,925 It's all about keeping a secret, like the seed phrase, if you broadcasted 1383 01:12:14,925 --> 01:12:18,975 the sec seed phrase, put it on TV or at a billboard somewhere, the 1384 01:12:18,975 --> 01:12:23,055 Bitcoin would disappear pretty quickly because someone would figure it out. 1385 01:12:23,535 --> 01:12:28,455 But to even know that a seed phrase is a seed phrase, you can hide them in a poem, 1386 01:12:28,485 --> 01:12:33,625 for instance, or like, they're, they're such a, We've just be begun to scratch 1387 01:12:33,625 --> 01:12:37,975 the surface of how to do Bitcoin security because there's, there's so many ways of 1388 01:12:37,975 --> 01:12:39,895 keeping a secret, and that's all it is. 1389 01:12:39,985 --> 01:12:41,935 It's all about just keeping a secret. 1390 01:12:42,445 --> 01:12:45,565 And you can keep one secret, you can keep many secrets, but at the 1391 01:12:45,565 --> 01:12:49,195 end of the day, all Bitcoin's rec reside within a person's head. 1392 01:12:49,615 --> 01:12:53,375 Uh, or a couple of persons had a couple of people's heads, right? 1393 01:12:54,145 --> 01:12:58,225 So that's all it is, and that's, that's what makes it so much more resilient 1394 01:12:58,225 --> 01:13:03,145 to violence than physical things, because physical things are, Physical. 1395 01:13:03,515 --> 01:13:03,935 Mm-hmm. 1396 01:13:04,045 --> 01:13:05,185 This is not physical. 1397 01:13:05,190 --> 01:13:06,115 This is in your brain. 1398 01:13:06,115 --> 01:13:06,205 Yes. 1399 01:13:06,445 --> 01:13:07,495 It's a different thing. 1400 01:13:07,495 --> 01:13:11,155 It's in the intellectual realm, not in the realm of physical violence. 1401 01:13:11,545 --> 01:13:11,815 Right. 1402 01:13:12,055 --> 01:13:15,535 And everybody has intellect where not everybody has physical strength or 1403 01:13:15,535 --> 01:13:17,365 physical means to protect themselves. 1404 01:13:17,365 --> 01:13:21,385 So it's, it's literally the most equalizing type of, of, of property 1405 01:13:21,385 --> 01:13:24,445 that you can have because everybody has the ability to secure that. 1406 01:13:24,775 --> 01:13:28,165 It's the only, I believe you've said this before, it's the only true property Right. 1407 01:13:28,170 --> 01:13:31,465 That that could ever exist because they can't be taken by physical force. 1408 01:13:31,765 --> 01:13:35,185 Um, and, and, and Luke, to your, to your earlier question about, uh, 1409 01:13:35,215 --> 01:13:39,535 marketing, I think, I think that one of the things that, um, I found was a, 1410 01:13:39,535 --> 01:13:44,755 was an early, um, boost in the shot, uh, or, you know, boost in the arm of, 1411 01:13:44,755 --> 01:13:47,785 of my book sales and kind of got, when I was starting to do my book tour, 1412 01:13:47,935 --> 01:13:49,555 people were, were fascinated by my book. 1413 01:13:49,555 --> 01:13:50,965 They'd never heard my name before. 1414 01:13:51,205 --> 01:13:54,535 And so, you know, how, how am I gonna sell a book to people if they don't know who 1415 01:13:54,540 --> 01:13:55,975 I am or they don't know my background? 1416 01:13:56,185 --> 01:13:58,496 So what I did was I actually hid a seed phrase. 1417 01:13:58,955 --> 01:14:03,335 In the early copies of my book, and I said that here, this is meant to be a lesson. 1418 01:14:03,335 --> 01:14:06,605 There's, there's 12 words hidden throughout the book, and the first 1419 01:14:06,605 --> 01:14:08,735 person that finds it wins 5 million sets. 1420 01:14:09,065 --> 01:14:14,155 And so I want people to understand that, that it, yes, it, Bitcoin 1421 01:14:14,435 --> 01:14:15,935 is about keeping a secret. 1422 01:14:16,145 --> 01:14:16,715 You can even. 1423 01:14:17,650 --> 01:14:19,420 Be kind of loose with that secret. 1424 01:14:19,420 --> 01:14:22,090 I can try to give that secret out to the world, but unless 1425 01:14:22,090 --> 01:14:25,780 you, like here, I promise you those 12 words are in this book. 1426 01:14:25,930 --> 01:14:29,290 But unless you know how to find them, it's still a secret. 1427 01:14:29,290 --> 01:14:31,660 And so even by putting that out publicly, like you said, 1428 01:14:31,660 --> 01:14:32,740 you could hide it in a poem. 1429 01:14:32,860 --> 01:14:33,790 I hid it in my book. 1430 01:14:33,970 --> 01:14:35,170 My, my, my daughter. 1431 01:14:35,175 --> 01:14:40,630 She, uh, she has this, uh, fun way of, of her, her seed phrase is written down. 1432 01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:41,890 I, I won't tell you the exact method. 1433 01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:47,410 Methodology, of course, but she, she wrote a, uh, a poem in crayon that she 1434 01:14:47,410 --> 01:14:52,120 keeps in her safe and will say every, every fifth word is her seed phrase. 1435 01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,880 And it just looks like a child's poem written in crayon. 1436 01:14:55,060 --> 01:14:58,510 But it's, it's all of her, you know, it's her, you know, 50,000 SATs she 1437 01:14:58,510 --> 01:15:01,750 owns or whatever it is, and it's, it's her way of securing that. 1438 01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:04,080 And it's so fun to talk to children about. 1439 01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,940 Securing a seed phrase and, and, and just here, here, this is why it matters. 1440 01:15:07,940 --> 01:15:08,720 It's the secret. 1441 01:15:08,900 --> 01:15:10,850 This is something that you can keep and you don't have 1442 01:15:10,850 --> 01:15:12,080 to tell mom and dad about it. 1443 01:15:12,380 --> 01:15:17,360 Um, she came up with this own interesting way of securing her seed phrase, uh, that, 1444 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:18,740 that I, that I wouldn't have thought of. 1445 01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:22,100 Um, and so she, she even told me, she goes, yeah, if somebody were to, 1446 01:15:22,105 --> 01:15:25,490 to break into my safe, if my brother was to break into my safe, he would 1447 01:15:25,490 --> 01:15:27,950 see this and he would just think it was a story that I wrote down, 1448 01:15:27,950 --> 01:15:29,000 or it was a poem that I wrote down. 1449 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,980 He wouldn't even know that it was my seed phrase, you know, 1450 01:15:30,980 --> 01:15:31,850 tho those types of things. 1451 01:15:31,850 --> 01:15:35,570 So it's, uh, it's very fascinating talking to children and see how when 1452 01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:39,410 they, when they start to grasp Bitcoin, what are the, the innovations in 1453 01:15:39,415 --> 01:15:42,530 Bitcoin aren't, like you said, don't need to happen at the base layer. 1454 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,360 They need to happen at the intellectual layer. 1455 01:15:44,570 --> 01:15:47,270 Our children are gonna have more layer. 1456 01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:48,850 The social layer, right? 1457 01:15:48,850 --> 01:15:49,150 Yeah. 1458 01:15:49,155 --> 01:15:49,380 Yeah. 1459 01:15:49,390 --> 01:15:51,010 So, so, so yeah. 1460 01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,870 In a way, it's safer to keep the seed phrase outta the safe than in 1461 01:15:55,875 --> 01:16:00,700 the safe, because if, if there's a safe, so that implies that there's 1462 01:16:00,705 --> 01:16:02,410 something valuable in the safe. 1463 01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:07,810 If, if the, if it's just a poem on a, in, in some notebook somewhere, 1464 01:16:08,410 --> 01:16:10,330 then no one, no one will ever know. 1465 01:16:10,330 --> 01:16:12,340 Like they, they don't even know what they're looking for. 1466 01:16:12,850 --> 01:16:12,940 Yeah. 1467 01:16:12,940 --> 01:16:13,960 So, so that's the thing. 1468 01:16:14,620 --> 01:16:18,070 And I just realized I can make a lot of people do a lot of stupid stuff by 1469 01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:23,260 claiming that there's 12 words hidden in each and every one of my books. 1470 01:16:23,890 --> 01:16:26,470 And I stored about a hundred big bitcoins in each. 1471 01:16:28,660 --> 01:16:29,590 There may or may 1472 01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:30,160 not be. 1473 01:16:33,410 --> 01:16:33,700 Yeah. 1474 01:16:33,700 --> 01:16:33,940 Yeah. 1475 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:36,460 There's not, don't believe him. 1476 01:16:38,020 --> 01:16:38,620 So good one. 1477 01:16:38,625 --> 01:16:39,070 Brian. 1478 01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:43,300 Has anyone found, I guess no one has found them yet. 1479 01:16:43,690 --> 01:16:44,530 Somebody found it. 1480 01:16:44,530 --> 01:16:45,430 It took about six months. 1481 01:16:45,790 --> 01:16:46,000 Yeah. 1482 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:46,480 Oh yeah. 1483 01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:46,720 Alright. 1484 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,130 I made it pretty complicated too. 1485 01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,340 Um, it was a, it was a woman from the, the, that I met at the BEEF Initiative. 1486 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,340 She, she found it nice and yeah, it was, uh, it was good. 1487 01:16:54,340 --> 01:16:54,610 So. 1488 01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:55,960 Excellent. 1489 01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:56,620 Excellent. 1490 01:16:56,860 --> 01:16:58,690 Did you hear about Michael Dunworth? 1491 01:16:58,690 --> 01:17:00,760 Uh, the Peter Dunworth brother? 1492 01:17:00,820 --> 01:17:05,080 Uh, my Australian friends, uh, he, no. 1493 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:10,500 Michael sent a Bitcoin to the future, to the year 2,140. 1494 01:17:11,375 --> 01:17:16,120 Uh, uh, time locked it and, oh, the, the key is, is on the 1495 01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:17,530 internet for everyone to see. 1496 01:17:18,220 --> 01:17:23,260 So anyone who claims that in 2,140 gets an, an entire Bitcoin, whereas like a 1497 01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:25,870 couple of cities, uh, gosh, at that point, 1498 01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:28,050 that's amazing. 1499 01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:29,090 It's right. 1500 01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:34,300 And the, the most amazing part of it is that you can actually do that. 1501 01:17:34,930 --> 01:17:39,790 You can just tell the, the tell the network that these, this Bitcoin 1502 01:17:39,790 --> 01:17:45,310 here, this here Bitcoin cannot be unlocked and sent to some other 1503 01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:47,500 address until this block height. 1504 01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:49,180 That's amazing. 1505 01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:51,880 And then you protect them from even yourself. 1506 01:17:52,570 --> 01:17:53,530 So that's 1507 01:17:53,530 --> 01:17:54,160 a really good point. 1508 01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,140 I don't trust my kids, but I'm gonna pass this on to my 1509 01:17:56,145 --> 01:17:57,251 grandkids so I'm gonna time one. 1510 01:17:57,256 --> 01:17:58,090 Exactly, exactly. 1511 01:17:58,600 --> 01:17:59,590 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1512 01:17:59,590 --> 01:18:01,060 That's possible right now. 1513 01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,520 And people ought to be doing it, but they are. 1514 01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:06,160 And some are, but far 1515 01:18:06,165 --> 01:18:06,580 too few. 1516 01:18:07,510 --> 01:18:07,730 Wow. 1517 01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,940 Thank you for sharing that cause I didn't know that actually. 1518 01:18:09,940 --> 01:18:10,690 That's really interesting. 1519 01:18:10,690 --> 01:18:10,870 Yeah. 1520 01:18:11,713 --> 01:18:15,343 The show is also sponsored by Bitcoin Book Shop, the Bitcoin only 1521 01:18:15,343 --> 01:18:17,143 bookstore by Konsensus Network. 1522 01:18:17,533 --> 01:18:20,743 Konsensus specializes in translations of Bitcoin books and 1523 01:18:20,743 --> 01:18:24,193 also publishes original titles in English and many other languages. 1524 01:18:24,523 --> 01:18:27,673 Check out Bitcoin book Shop for all your Bitcoin book needs. 1525 01:18:28,063 --> 01:18:30,553 Konsensus is always looking for new contributors. 1526 01:18:30,583 --> 01:18:33,283 Whether you have a book you wanna publish, you wanna help translate 1527 01:18:33,283 --> 01:18:34,783 books into your native language. 1528 01:18:35,158 --> 01:18:38,248 Or you have some other way you want to get involved, so if you want to help 1529 01:18:38,248 --> 01:18:42,268 spread the Bitcoin message, reach out to Konsensus Network by Twitter or 1530 01:18:42,268 --> 01:18:44,248 email details are in the show notes. 1531 01:18:44,826 --> 01:18:45,786 what else do we have, Luke? 1532 01:18:46,146 --> 01:18:48,096 Um, it's a good time to wrap up 1533 01:18:48,096 --> 01:18:48,516 maybe. 1534 01:18:48,726 --> 01:18:49,056 Yeah. 1535 01:18:49,176 --> 01:18:51,296 Honestly I think, I think we've had a good convo, so yeah. 1536 01:18:51,696 --> 01:18:52,266 Thanks Brian. 1537 01:18:52,296 --> 01:18:52,476 Yeah. 1538 01:18:52,476 --> 01:18:52,926 Loved it. 1539 01:18:53,526 --> 01:18:57,416 Can you tell us, our listeners, where to find you and uh, maybe any 1540 01:18:57,876 --> 01:18:59,256 last words you have about orange 1541 01:18:59,256 --> 01:18:59,586 pill app? 1542 01:19:00,156 --> 01:19:00,366 Yeah. 1543 01:19:00,396 --> 01:19:00,756 Thank you. 1544 01:19:00,756 --> 01:19:02,406 Well, thanks for, for having me on. 1545 01:19:02,436 --> 01:19:03,276 This was just fun. 1546 01:19:03,336 --> 01:19:06,426 Like, if there was no recording, I would just love to hang with you guys and chat. 1547 01:19:06,426 --> 01:19:08,916 So, um, you know, this is, yeah, my pleasure. 1548 01:19:09,396 --> 01:19:11,856 As far as reaching out to me, touch, touch base with me on the 1549 01:19:11,856 --> 01:19:15,696 orange pill app, um, I'm much more responsive on the orange pill app just 1550 01:19:15,696 --> 01:19:17,636 because I, I know it's Bitcoiners. 1551 01:19:17,936 --> 01:19:20,766 Um, I try to get back to everybody on Twitter, so I'll do my best to 1552 01:19:20,766 --> 01:19:22,116 get back to, to people on Twitter. 1553 01:19:22,116 --> 01:19:26,376 And uh, you know, we, we love interacting with the social layer of Bitcoin, so, 1554 01:19:26,586 --> 01:19:27,996 um, that, that's really important. 1555 01:19:28,836 --> 01:19:29,286 There we go. 1556 01:19:29,616 --> 01:19:31,806 Always, always doing a nice show for it. 1557 01:19:32,046 --> 01:19:33,306 Um, but I think it is important. 1558 01:19:33,311 --> 01:19:37,426 That mean, that's my, my one last pitch to sign off with is that, We can all do 1559 01:19:37,426 --> 01:19:41,506 something in Bitcoin today to, to help build, to lower our time preference. 1560 01:19:41,506 --> 01:19:45,526 Your time preference will just naturally lower if you're trying to 1561 01:19:45,526 --> 01:19:47,446 do something that's of material value. 1562 01:19:47,446 --> 01:19:51,676 So whether that's hosting a meetup, whether that's going to, to to Prague, 1563 01:19:51,676 --> 01:19:55,756 whether that's doing something that's, you know, being Konsensus, Network and 1564 01:19:55,761 --> 01:20:00,526 selling books, like all, all of these things, it, it gets you focused on, okay, 1565 01:20:00,526 --> 01:20:03,676 I can do something we, cause every human wants to do something here and now, right? 1566 01:20:03,676 --> 01:20:06,046 Like we have a, we have a high time preference. 1567 01:20:06,126 --> 01:20:06,936 With our day. 1568 01:20:06,996 --> 01:20:08,586 What, what's my checklist for today? 1569 01:20:08,736 --> 01:20:09,306 That's fine. 1570 01:20:09,306 --> 01:20:13,356 Like on productive things, we should have a, a, a high time preference because if 1571 01:20:13,356 --> 01:20:16,926 I need to make this hamburger, I can't wait forever for the hamburger to be made. 1572 01:20:16,926 --> 01:20:18,666 So we need to build today. 1573 01:20:19,056 --> 01:20:21,006 Those are the things we can have high time preference on. 1574 01:20:21,096 --> 01:20:23,556 But what is the focus in the long term? 1575 01:20:23,556 --> 01:20:26,406 Are we building something that's gonna last till 2140? 1576 01:20:26,406 --> 01:20:30,246 So I can unlock Michael's dunworth to Bitcoin, which I, which I for sure 1577 01:20:30,246 --> 01:20:34,896 am now gonna strive to live to be 170 years old just so that I can get access 1578 01:20:34,896 --> 01:20:36,276 to a few cities worth of Bitcoin. 1579 01:20:36,516 --> 01:20:41,706 Um, but what we, what we pitch with orange pill app is if you don't have an idea 1580 01:20:41,711 --> 01:20:45,816 for how you wanna build in Bitcoin, Help build the social layer, help build the 1581 01:20:45,816 --> 01:20:47,676 social layer of Bitcoin by plugging in. 1582 01:20:47,946 --> 01:20:51,516 Um, if you're the first Bitcoin that you know of in your area, cuz you 1583 01:20:51,516 --> 01:20:55,896 live in a remote area, then, then plug into the network and be that 1584 01:20:55,896 --> 01:20:58,086 first node in that local community. 1585 01:20:58,086 --> 01:21:00,846 Because what happens is every network needs to start with 1586 01:21:00,846 --> 01:21:03,936 a node somewhere and then the network will build out around you. 1587 01:21:03,936 --> 01:21:05,766 So be willing to be that first person. 1588 01:21:05,766 --> 01:21:09,216 Or if you're in an area that's high density already and you have 50 Bitcoiners 1589 01:21:09,216 --> 01:21:12,546 that are on orange pill app near you, then start interacting with those people. 1590 01:21:12,756 --> 01:21:16,656 Go grab coffee, create an event in your area, and, and, and host a meetup 1591 01:21:16,656 --> 01:21:19,866 or you know, there's, there's Bitcoin games that you can play now you can, 1592 01:21:19,866 --> 01:21:23,661 you know, Buy one of these games and, and host a game night or do, you know, 1593 01:21:23,811 --> 01:21:26,931 monopoly party or a poker party or whatever, and just get together with 1594 01:21:26,961 --> 01:21:29,001 Bitcoiners and, and, and do those things. 1595 01:21:29,241 --> 01:21:34,071 Um, and so that, that's my pitch to people is find a way to, uh, contribute 1596 01:21:34,131 --> 01:21:36,201 to and build in Bitcoin today. 1597 01:21:36,441 --> 01:21:39,651 Um, because we'll have a, a brighter orange future tomorrow. 1598 01:21:39,711 --> 01:21:43,221 Um, and, uh, yeah, orange pill app, if you go to the orange pill 1599 01:21:43,221 --> 01:21:46,041 app.com, you can sign up, you can pay in Bitcoin if you want. 1600 01:21:46,281 --> 01:21:48,681 You can sign up through the app app store and pay through the app store 1601 01:21:48,681 --> 01:21:51,651 if you prefer the, the fiat method that's, you know, fine as well. 1602 01:21:51,951 --> 01:21:55,341 Um, and, uh, yeah, look forward to later this year. 1603 01:21:55,341 --> 01:21:59,151 We will have our orange pages, our, our merchant section of the orange pill 1604 01:21:59,151 --> 01:22:03,921 app, where you can find local Bitcoin merchants, um, which we are very excited 1605 01:22:03,921 --> 01:22:07,251 about as well because I think that that's gonna contribute to hyperbitcoinization, 1606 01:22:07,521 --> 01:22:11,271 um, of, of being able to just pragmatically orange pill merchants. 1607 01:22:11,271 --> 01:22:13,041 So, um, and as far as my book. 1608 01:22:13,386 --> 01:22:14,886 It's available on Amazon. 1609 01:22:14,886 --> 01:22:16,266 It's called Bitcoin Evangelism. 1610 01:22:16,326 --> 01:22:18,156 Uh, feel free to to check it out. 1611 01:22:18,396 --> 01:22:20,916 Um, it's on Audible, all of those places as well. 1612 01:22:20,916 --> 01:22:21,726 So thank you guys. 1613 01:22:21,726 --> 01:22:22,716 I, I really appreciate it. 1614 01:22:22,721 --> 01:22:25,836 Luke and Canoe guys are, are awesome and you guys are an inspiration. 1615 01:22:25,866 --> 01:22:29,406 You guys are really, uh, pushing the intellectual layer of Bitcoin and, uh, 1616 01:22:29,411 --> 01:22:30,936 I always find it challenging and fun. 1617 01:22:32,406 --> 01:22:33,126 Thanks a lot. 1618 01:22:33,276 --> 01:22:37,776 Um, yeah, everyone, everyone thinks they need to be a developer to contribute 1619 01:22:37,776 --> 01:22:39,756 to Bitcoin, but the opposite is true. 1620 01:22:39,756 --> 01:22:41,886 Everyone's a fucking developer in this space. 1621 01:22:41,891 --> 01:22:45,786 We need the division of labor, we need all those sorts of other skills. 1622 01:22:46,356 --> 01:22:49,416 So, uh, yeah, go make yourself useful. 1623 01:22:49,716 --> 01:22:51,876 Um, thanks so much for coming on. 1624 01:22:51,906 --> 01:22:56,346 Um, Brian, looking forward to the next spaces and the next, uh, OPA meeting, 1625 01:22:56,406 --> 01:22:58,566 whenever that is, after Prague, I think. 1626 01:22:58,706 --> 01:22:59,316 Yeah, yeah. 1627 01:22:59,316 --> 01:22:59,916 Hope Perfect. 1628 01:23:00,576 --> 01:23:03,426 And, uh, yeah, we'll fill you guys in on this orange pilling Congress 1629 01:23:03,431 --> 01:23:06,696 thing that should, we should have lots of fun content to provide, uh, yeah. 1630 01:23:06,936 --> 01:23:09,846 Hopefully some fun reactions from politicians on Capitol Hill. 1631 01:23:10,476 --> 01:23:10,806 Yep. 1632 01:23:11,016 --> 01:23:12,126 Yeah, that'll be fun. 1633 01:23:12,816 --> 01:23:12,936 Awesome. 1634 01:23:12,936 --> 01:23:13,926 All right, take care, 1635 01:23:13,926 --> 01:23:14,376 Brian. 1636 01:23:14,913 --> 01:23:16,713 What did you think of that episode with Brian? 1637 01:23:17,043 --> 01:23:19,743 It was great to hear about all the work he's doing with orange pill App, and 1638 01:23:19,743 --> 01:23:22,870 we're really excited about some of the new features they have rolling out soon. 1639 01:23:23,470 --> 01:23:25,270 Check out orange pill app if you haven't already. 1640 01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:27,490 It's available on iOS and Android. 1641 01:23:28,270 --> 01:23:29,770 Let us know what you think of the episode. 1642 01:23:29,770 --> 01:23:31,870 You can send us a Boostgram on Fountain. 1643 01:23:31,870 --> 01:23:35,380 Leave us a comment on YouTube or get in touch on Noster or Twitter. 1644 01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:39,070 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode and subscribe 1645 01:23:39,070 --> 01:23:40,600 to the Konsensus Network channel. 1646 01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:45,400 Our show sponsors are Wasabi Wallet, orange pill app, and Bitcoin Book shop. 1647 01:23:45,610 --> 01:23:49,300 Use code Footprint at Bitcoin Book Shop for 10% off your purchase. 1648 01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:50,920 That's all for now. 1649 01:23:51,190 --> 01:23:53,290 See you next time, and thanks for listening.