FFS074 - Andre Loja

Intro

Andre: [00:00:00] So we have, I don't know the exact number, it grows by the day, but we have, I don't know, over 120 speakers already confirmed, and I don't think we introduced 60 so far. And yeah, not only that, there's many other, not only inside the venue, but outside the venue, a lot of satellite events that I've been talking about but some of them are not officially launched yet. So yeah, there will be a crazy number of people and stuff to do basically in Madeira for a whole week.

Luke: Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn. And we're here today with Andre Loja. He's been on the show before, so we don't have to introduce him again, but this time Knut's actually on the show and not out sick with the plague.

So this is lovely. We get them both here. And the theme of today's conversation is, of course, we'd be talking all about it constantly.

Bitcoin Atlantis

Luke: Bitcoin Atlantis, the mega conference happening on Madeira March 1st to 3rd and Andre is the [00:01:00] man behind this conference. So Andre, welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show and can't wait to talk about Bitcoin Atlantis.

Andre: Thank you, Luke. Uh, thanks for having me again. You know, thanks for, you know, being two of you and thanks for being at the distance of a Zoom call instead of just plaguing me with anything. How

Knut: You're not overworked or stressed or anything like that?

Andre: Always. But, uh, you guys, I think you guys can imagine how, you know, how busy it's been for the last few months. but it's actually good, you know, with, with, with some peaks on the stress levels, but the anxiety levels, but, uh, it's, it's for, it's for a good cause. So everything's good.

Knut: this is shaping up to be the best conference ever. I mean, you dropped so many good names in the last few weeks alone, like people that I didn't know were coming, but the [00:02:00] lineup is just spectacular at this point. It's just Amazing.

Andre: We are very fortunate and, you know, we didn't announce half of it, probably. At this point, so we have, I don't know the exact number, it grows by the day, but we have, I don't know, over 120 speakers already confirmed, and I don't think we introduced 60 so far. and yeah, not only that, there's many other, not only inside the venue, but outside the venue.

A lot of satellite events that I've been. talking about but some of them are not officially launched yet. So yeah, there will be a crazy number of people and stuff to do basically in Madeira for a whole week.

Knut: Excellent. And you kicked the whole thing off with a golfing tournament, if I'm correct.

Andre: Yes, I was actually just, um, before joining the podcast, I was just, uh, curating the last, uh, words on the [00:03:00] landing page for the, for the, for the golf tournament. Uh, we announced it, but it's, it's going live soon, the official landing page for the golf tournament. it's happening. On 27th, yeah, three days before the conference, in the morning in, uh, Santo do Souto golf course, which is an amazing course in the mountains with beautiful views.

it's called the Hole Corner Golf Challenge.

Knut: yeah.

Andre: And, uh, and yeah, we hope, uh, we hope it's a success, but we do have a deadline for registration. So when we launch the landing page, we're going to spread out the words so people can join soon and make a success out of it.

Knut: Rabbit Hole in One. So, yeah, the backup name for you there.

Andre: Hopefully someone does it so we can pay for the rings.

Knut: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course.

Recap of the Bitcoin Story in Madeira

Knut: Maybe we should do a recap of this story, if I may, uh, try here, and you [00:04:00] can cut in whenever you want, Andre, to like, give you, our listeners, the backstory for this whole thing. So, Andre is a multi faceted entrepreneur from the island of Madeira. Who amongst other things does Portuguese book translation.

So that's how I got to know Andre, he sent me a message and wanted the rights to publish my books in Portuguese and we, so we, uh, we set up a, um, a contract, a deal for that. And then I met you in Miami and Andre's side of this story is, that he had, he's running a co working space in Funchal, and the president came and visited this co working space and started to say stuff about how fantastic crypto was and blockchain and web 3 and all sorts of stuff.

And Andre was like, hold your horses, Mr. President, you got it all wrong and needed to find a way to stop [00:05:00] this shit coinery tendencies in the president. So in order to do that. You tried to, I, I believe first you tried to get, uh, Samson Mow to the, to the island, right? Or, or something like that, but, uh, long story short, it all ended with you and the president and Daniel Prince and the, uh, the actual prince of Serbia who had just came out, came out, come out of the, uh, Bitcoiner closet, uh, Uh, you ended up on the same plane together, on your way to Miami.

So you took the president to Miami in 2022, uh, for Bitcoin Miami, whether are no shit Bitcoiners at all. Of course he and, uh, uh, but uh, and managed to, to get him invited to a breakfast at Sailor's house where he got orange peel by, by Mr. Sailor himself for two hours, like. You know, Bitcoin is this fantastic thing.

And, uh, and, uh, after that, at least, uh, most of the people [00:06:00] in the president's cabinet were orange pills. So, and he was too, to a certain extent. So, uh, you got permission to set up this Free Madeira organization with, uh, me, uh, and Daniel Prince and a whole bunch of other phenomenal Bitcoiners. And we spent a week together in, um, in June, one and a half years ago now.

Uh, and made a little documentary and visited all of these beautiful old buildings and governmental buildings in Funchal, where, where we talked to a lot of people in a lot of institutions to try to orange pill them with, uh, varying degrees of success, but, uh, All in all, we set up the organization and there have been monthly meetups ever since, in the coworking space.

And there's been a bunch of other Bitcoin or activities. A bunch of Bitcoiners have moved there. And now, president Miguel this year in, in Amsterdam announced that, uh, there will be, uh, a building, uh, [00:07:00] specific building for Bitcoin companies and Bitcoin activities in, uh, port De,

Andre: we actually had to change locations,

Knut: Alright, so there's another. So where is it now?

Andre: it's going to be in Funchal, uh, but it's probably going to be in Downtown Funchal, which is even better in my opinion.

Knut: Of course, of course, that's where everything happens on the island. anyway, uh, somewhere in the midst of this, um, This year or, or like one and a half year that has passed, we have, uh, at some point we decided that we wanted to have a conference on the island and believe it or not, the, the president wanted to give us a football stadium to have the conference in and this actually happened.

So now there's like this mother of a Bitcoin conference in the biggest venue on the island. It's absolutely. Awesome. How things played out there, and I'm so looking forward to this one and spending some time on my favorite island again. So it's, what am I missing here?

Andre: Well, not a lot, uh, you know, [00:08:00] the whole story, but. and I still recall that week, uh, in Miami, basically changed my whole life. Uh, but, um, it was a surreal experience in Miami. the only goal was to do a podcast named, uh, Between Two Princes. In an Airbnb in Miami, but failed miserably at the podcast, but we, Oh, we, we have the opportunity of orange pill in Ireland.

So let's grab it.

Knut: Yeah.

Andre: Um, and yeah, it was, it was, you know, getting two months before that I was just, alone in Madeira Island and, uh, wasn't even considering going to Miami. And then because of a whole chain of events, uh, we did go, and the president went, uh, we were received at Sailor's Villa, um, nice impression, by the way, it was almost like that for two hours,

Knut: Uh, sorry, Mike.[00:09:00]

Andre: and a series of events that, you know, still feel cloudy in my head, but resulted in, by the end of Seif Din's dinner.

In a conversation with the president and then an agreement to, you know, to go forward with the non profits that, uh, you know, for the previous two weeks before the trip, I was already arranging in my head on how to formalize if things went well and, uh, they did and the president agreed and here we are.

Knut: Yeah, and apart from the, the, the new names that keep dropping in all the time, I also see a lot of posts from Madeira about more and more retailers and brick and mortar stores and pharmacies and whatnot. that are starting to accept bitcoin. So things are moving on the island like,

Free Madeira Organization and Plans

Andre: Yes, it's, uh, you know, and we, we, we talked about this in the beginning when, when we launched Free Madeira officially yeah, it was in, Amsterdam as well. but last year, there was already a lot of, [00:10:00] movement, a lot of interests, a lot of contacts, and we did start our work and, at the time there was Not even an idea to do a conference that came later.

And, the nonprofit has a lot of plans, um, of its own, of course. Um, besides the conference, although we are very much focused on the conference because of the size of it and how, it grew to this monster. but, FREE Madeira itself has a lot of plans on, on the indication. Uh, we partnered with a lot of good names, like my first Bitcoin Looking Glass MTH. we're working on the remittances. We partnered with Lamassu ATM machines and we have some, workshops, uh, planned to, help, the community. So the diaspora, we have a lot of communities everywhere, especially Venezuela. there's energy plans, uh, plans. We're working in several, uh, Several of them actually, and, [00:11:00] some of them you know, involve the public power company, um, with the Bitcoin mining to stabilize the grid.

We live in an island, so it's, perfect, it just needs education and some biomass project that we're working on the calculations with the, with Mark Morton from scaling mining in Ireland and Troy Cross is advising, us through the whole process. we, as we already referenced, uh, there's a building coming, we're negotiating, where we want to, not only have the FREE Madeira Fortress but, you know, the, co-working space, where Bitcoiners can, can work and companies, Bitcoin companies can incorporate and work from there, have legal advice, um, tax advice.

Um, we want the meetups and the podcasts to be there, of course, we have the education projects that we want to develop there. there's the Sovereign Engineering Project with Gigi and Pablo that is also going through and starting at the beginning of [00:12:00] January, and, many other things. And you know, in the middle of all of this, suddenly on one of those advisory board meetings, I dropped the idea of doing a conference.

And You know, but my idea was basically to almost replicate the June trip where a bunch of Bitcoiners came to the island. We had a lot of formal meetings with the public entities and the government and just going around and knowing the island. I wanted to do something a bit more professional and have the advisory board come over so we could continue the conversations basically.

But then, because of the advisory board, and people like yourself Knut, and Jeff Booth, and Daniel, and Troy, and Gigi, and Obi, and, you know, so many others, suddenly we had, you know, casual messages like, you know, oh, Jack Dorsey is interested in coming so it's confirmed. And,[00:13:00] Michael Seller also accepted to come, and, you know, Jack Mallers is in, and suddenly, can we swear here?

It's okay? You know?

Luke: No, definitely not Andre.

Andre: So, at one point I said, fuck it, man. Let's go. Uh, we need to do Let's go. Let's do, let's, let's go big. And, you know, I don't have the spirit of trying, of doing something bad. So I think we should aim high on all our pursuits. So why not? And now we're this monster conference with you know, as I said before, over 120 speakers confirmed. A

stadium um, you know, workshop areas, hardware areas, kids areas, women's events, golf championships, festival, music festivals, boat trips, hiking, a whole week of stuff. Uh, but you [00:14:00] know, in the, the most important is the, is the, is the talks and this is a major opportunity to, pursue some of our goals. And, um, we have an amazing, amazing program being designed for the main stage and the open source stage.

Um, that I think it's going to blow people's minds.

Knut: Absolutely. And don't worry about that week last year being unprofessional. Like that was, that week was spectacular, man. And I think I speak for all of us that we're like internally grateful for you putting that thing together. We all had an amazing time

Andre: I think

Knut: Yeah. Yeah. Madeira speaks for itself.

One thing I'm thinking about is Gigi in his green suit. How do you find him on the island? Because the island is completely green itself, so he must be even better camouflaged over there than he is anywhere else, right?

Andre: it's hard and we already have lizards of our own, so it's hard to spot. it's probably mating in a rock, by the shoreline,

Knut: Or

[00:15:00] mating in a rock?

Andre: We have here the small lizards I think he's procreating, so it's kinda nice. We're letting him go because we need bunch of Gigi, so he's cloning himself.

Luke: Yeah, Gigi is a shape shifting lizard. Exactly. That's the, that's the, theory now. Yeah.

Knut: He's either between two ferns or two asics, that's my suspicion.

Andre: We should do something the twos again, because they'll, they'll be here for the conference,

Knut: Yeah, Between Two Princes, that's a great, the great title for a show.

Andre: not speaking. Besides

Knut: Yeah,

yeah, yeah, they'll just be, yeah, I'll talk to them about it.

Bitcoin Atlantis Music Festival

Knut: so what, what about the music festival? What artists have you booked?

Andre: So it's being a headlined by Theo Katzman. American artist, great music. Uh, you should listen if you don't know him. Uh, he's part of a band's, a very well known band called spac, so we are very fortunate to have him. Uh, but we'll also have, um, other people like Joe Martin, [00:16:00] Napa, Napa is a modern band and we'll have many others.

Um, hopefully at least two more, uh, that we're still, uh, going for. Uh, but it's, it's already, you know. It's already a great festival and, and, and the setting is amazing. You're going to see the, the picture soon, uh, when we launched the landing page, it's in Quinta Magnolia, which is a park, an old Quinta, so a scenario house that was recovered to be a park nowadays, beautiful, big, a lot of greenery.

It's an amazing setting and it's just very near the main venue. So on Saturday, when the programming on the main venue is finished around 6 PM, uh, it's 30 seconds to 1 minute down walking and you'll be at the music festival for, uh, to continue the celebrations.

Knut: Excellent. uh, it sounds absolutely awesome.

Goals of Bitcoin Atlantis

Luke: What would, what would the success look like to you? What do you want to really get out of the [00:17:00] conference?

Andre: that's a good question, man. Well, besides, you know, the obvious, we want to make it an amazing week. We hope everyone, you know, most of all that we see happy people around for a week and that everybody enjoys the conference. And there's some, you know, that we are financially healthy, of course, that helps as well, because it just grew into a monster and, um, you know, it's, it was part of the, of the goals in the beginning, because this, this is special in that sense as well, is that it is a conference organized by Freemadata.

So. Besides all the other goals that I'm going to explain soon, we also want it to be a way to fund the FREE Madeira projects all year round, so the profit will revert back to the non profit, and this is always, my fiat friends are always confused by this, the non profit. You know, we're a non profit, but the idea is to be sustainable.

We want to make money. Right? [00:18:00] Uh, we don't want, like, people think of a non profit as, you know, getting government subsidies to do bullshit. not our case at all. We are not getting government subsidies, by the way, so I, think people should realize this, by the way, when we say we have support from the government, it's not financial. we want to be sustainable, so we want to revert profits back to our actions and our plans all year round at FREE Madeira so that's very important. It's not going to private pockets. but yeah, you know, in most, I have a lot of goals, not only one, but, you know, let's try to recap all of them. I, guess, one of the most important, and the whole reason we did the layer one tickets, which have a special price for residents, is to take this. Great opportunity to try and orange pill the most local people that you can, right? So, it's a big goal, to bring, you know, pre plebs, pre coiners, let's go. to the conference, people who are curious [00:19:00] but don't know enough yet. Because, you know, we want to, we want to onboard the most that we can on this escape hatch And we want people to realize how important Bitcoin can be to this island on everything that touches from, from, from money itself to, the energy part, to many other aspects of it. so that's one of the main goals. The other goal is also on the locals, but more on the official part. So government officials, public entities, private parties, uh, that we want to invite so they can, especially for some selected targets on some of the conversations and some of the people that we're inviting, so they can understand better, the proposition for their own interests.

Um, you know, good example, you know, the public power company guys, you know, to keep the, we already started the conversations, but they need still to see [00:20:00] that.

Bitcoin and Energy on Madeira

Andre: I think they're going to be amazed by Troy Cross block, uh, called Energy Abundance. Uh, there is, he's going to have, I don't know. Around 14 or 15 amazing people on their own, uh, expertise is inside the energy space talking about all the different, projects they're working on, uh, or, or, or, or developing in their own, um, jurisdictions.

And some of them can be adapted easily, to our islands and would make. I don't think they realize the difference it would make to Madeira. we're an island, uh, we're isolated grids. Uh, we import, we still import most of our fuel from the outside, we could go even deeper on that block because I think it's one of the most bullish ones for me.

Uh, but this is the kind of thing we want to do. So bring the government officials, bring the public entities, private parties that work on, you know, for example, a [00:21:00] lot of them invest in renewable energies that they sell back to the grid. Uh, and it could be a lot more profitable by integrating Bitcoin mining in their operations. Uh, but there are many other things on the remittances, on all the other aspects of Bitcoin Touches that we're inviting selected people to come. So that's another big goal of the conference.

Knut: uh, when you say importing, uh, like fossil fuels, uh, that's, that's for the electricity grid, like, uh, right, that's for the power grid. Uh, there are some diesel generators on the islander. Ah,

Andre: because, because I don't, I don't know if someone told you, but electrical cars need to charge somewhere, I don't know if, if, or I think it's, it's,

Knut: them, uh. An auxiliary engine, like auxiliary diesel engine, like,

Andre: yeah, that was actually a great expression. Like they. offset their fuel consumption or something like that. I don't know.

Knut: yeah, so the engine is in a different place than in the [00:22:00] car, but there's still an engine somewhere,

Andre: And I, you know, it's, it's really bothers me and I do have electrical cars for the companies, but I know, I know, I realized that electrical cars nowadays in Madeira, they run on 75 percent fuel consumption. Okay, so it's a bit better than the others, but they cost a lot more and extracted a lot of more minerals and materials out of the earth.

So it's, it's, it's just, you know, but Bitcoin mining can help. Okay. So if they really want to increase the renewables, and we can. That's, again, another Bitcoin rabbit hole, I guess, but, it's a very important aspect, in my view, that Bitcoin can help here in Madeira, and it could, in fact, reduce the fuel imports.

And also, actually, reduce the fertilizer imports as well, [00:23:00] because for example, on the biomass project, one of the outputs of the energy generation of the biomass stuff that is anaerobically digested, it's actually fucking fertilizer. One to one, okay? They nowadays import synthetic stuff, which is actually worse than the one produced by the biomass generator.

Um, they import from elsewhere. Again, bringing chips and fuel consumption and all of that, so Instead of gluing yourself to the tarmac on the road that the government builds Uh, you know, go fucking do a biomass project,

Knut: yeah, yeah, so, you have to import less shit in the future then, uh. Literally,

uh,

like if I'm going to play the devil's advocate for electric cars in Funchal specifically, they could really help there with noise levels and, uh, all the fumes from all the cars, like [00:24:00] that's, that's like the only downside of Funchal I see, or the, the traffic is horrible.

Andre: It's not that bad, man. You're overreacting on the traffic thing. I take my kids in

Knut: I take it back immediately, Madeira is fantastic.

Andre: No, man, it was way worse in Lisbon when I lived in Lisbon. That's crazy.

Diversifying the Madeira Economy with Bitcoin

Andre: and so, but getting back to the goals, um, there's also, another goal, and that's part of the, also why the government is supporting this whole thing. And we can go on the president and, you know, one thing is, having the president orange pilled, and he's not fully orange pilled, but he understands a lot more now.

But there's a bunch of layers of people below him that are still very, very far away from from understanding all of this. but they do know that on the president's mind, one of the big goals for Madeira is to offset the, no, I [00:25:00] won't put it that way, so do not rely so much on the tourism as the motor of the economy and being able to diversify and, you know, bring human capital and business capital to the island and, you know, support, new technologies as much as they can and basically make Madeira, make it more, um, inviting for businesses and families, so that we can, you know, create wealth and growth and, you know, and, and have.

More quality of life overall, for everyone. Um, and he sees Bitcoin as part of that, so for him, it's just part of the strategy, uh, to attract, um, new generations of more technological generations, I guess, to the island, and support them in their work. hence the Bitcoin business hub, it's, very important for us.

and you know, we're attracting [00:26:00] a lot of Bitcoiners from elsewhere because of the conference. So, it's an opportunity for them to come, to visit the island, you know, we trust, don't verify, you know, see with their own eyes, what's happening here. And maybe a lot of them will, choose to stay, or maybe regard it in the future as one of, one possibility.

And we're here, and I mean Free Madeira will be here to help them all the way, on their process if they do choose to come. And actually for the last few months it's been incredible, even before the conference we've been getting a lot of requests, a lot of people came already. Uh, a lot of people are considering, a lot of people are visiting to verify.

and we have companies incorporating already, so I think we can consider it as a success already. Uh, it's working.

Bitcoin Atlantis Name

Knut: All right, great to hear. Another thing on my mind is like the, I know there's a Bitcoin conference, a more technical Bitcoin conference every year on the[00:27:00]

Andre: Oh, Kevin's Kevin is here in Mada, by the way. uh, is the guy who organizes, uh, BTCs orders the conference. he's here right now because he's the, the, the invited guest speaker for tomorrow's meetup. I

Knut: fantastic. And how is the, so I was just about to ask how the collaboration between the two projects are going, but I guess they're going swell if he's there and being at the meetup.

Andre: I guess. Well, he's coming for our meetup and he's staying in one of our apartments, so I think it's going well and he's going to be at the conference. And supporting us through WizardSardin, so it's great.

Luke: you have any comment on, on that? There's some speculation that the Azores is actually probably the most likely location of the historical Atlantis because 11, 800 years ago, the Azores would have had a bit of a higher ridge there, so it's more likely that it was the center of the civilization that was lost when the Younger Dryas [00:28:00] impact occurred and the lost civilization was destroyed.

Do you have any comment on that, Andre?

Andre: know you're very mythological and way more knowledgeable about this subject than I am. Honestly, it was just a cool name, man. We're in the middle of

Luke: messing with you, Andre.

Andre: I know, I know. We're in the middle of the Atlantis and we were inspired by this book by Francis Bacon called The New Atlantis. Which is actually great.

I, I, I recommend because it's just an interesting book by itself and to sum it up It's, uh, it's basically about this This higher, more advanced population that lived in this island, supposedly in the middle of the Atlantic between Madeira and Azores somewhere. Uh, let's put it in the middle.

So I mean, let's, let's, uh, that, that it was a very advanced and enlightened, uh, population. Uh, and it's all about this magical island in the middle of the Atlantic. We thought it was perfect for, for our case. [00:29:00] And, um. Even the, the music festival is going to be called Atlas because of the, uh, you know, Atlas is the, was the, uh, I don't know the whole story, but the king of the, of the place and so on.

There's a whole story behind it.

Comparing Cuisines

Knut: And Francis Bacon, you say. I would say that Denmark is more bacon than France. France is more like wine and cheese and snails and shit.

Andre: I, I, I get the reference, but I think you have to include the, the UK as well in that, uh, conversation because if I'm not mistaken, Francis Bacon is. From London, or

Knut: Yeah, but they have shit bacon over there.

Andre: have shit food all over England, but man, so when I go to England, I cannot complain because thank God for immigration and we have the best international cuisine there. Just don't go to English restaurants.

Knut: yeah, yeah. The best English dish ever is Tikka [00:30:00] Masala. We should have had Uh, yeah, that always baffles me at British restaurants when they ask me, would you like mushy peas or garden peas? Well, like, you just answered the very question you were asking, like, what the fuck do you think? Why would anyone on earth want mushy peas?

It's disgusting.

Luke: is why would you want either of them? I think peas are a garbage vegetable. Absolutely fiat.

Knut: Yeah, but love and understanding, okay. Peas? Not so much.

Andre: I actually hate peace.

Luke: I don't know who wouldn't. I don't know who chooses to eat peas.

Knut: Is there a Pea Poncha? Uh, the

Andre: Let's not do it

Knut: name sounds sort of disgusting. You know, Pea Poncha. It could be misinterpreted.

Andre: Well, but you, but you do get contrary to the uk you do get a lot of good food in Madeira. So be prepared to eat [00:31:00] and you know, go back with a few molecules. And

Knut: Uh, don't forget to try the shptadas and the shptadas and don't touch the fucking banana fish. That's, uh, that's how you survive on Madeira.

Andre: a lot of people like the banana fish anyway. Just look at Daniel.

Knut: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's, he's from, you guessed it.

Luke: That's no relation to fish banana, the Norwegian anon, is it?

Knut: No, no, it doesn't. So even, yeah, Fish Banana, if you're listening to this, don't, if you go to Madeira, don't order yourself at the restaurant. Like,

Andre: it's a piece of fish with a banana on top, and you know, sometimes they even put passion fruit thing on top. So everything that grows on the island, they just throw it up

Knut: you're going to piss off a lot of your neighbors now, Andre, you realize that, right? You're depriving them of their livelihood.

Andre: It's better than mushy peas.

Knut: Everything's better than mushy peas.

Luke: Alright, so if you're deciding [00:32:00] which conference to go to in early spring 2024, also go to the conference in Bedford, because we like you as well, Peter. But anyway.

Andre: Yeah, we, we like a bit, but you better get some good food there because there's none.

Knut: Ah, yeah, good luck with that.

Andre: We can send some naspatada,

Knut: Yeah, send some shptada to Bedford, please.

Bitcoin Adoption on Madeira

Luke: alright, pulling this back just a little bit, um, can you maybe tell us, uh, how things are going in terms of the Bitcoin adoption on Madeira? Like it really seems like it's going well

Andre: we, you know, Knut, uh, was talking about the merchant adoption. We diverted the conversation completely. Knut knows that in the beginning I was not very, I won't say interested, but I was not pushing merchant adoption a lot. Because, you know, in the beginning there wasn't a [00:33:00] lot of Bitcoiners around and the community was still beginning, I guess, or growing.

And I didn't see the point of onboarding a lot of merchants before, you know, there was a circular economy going on. And Well, I basically just didn't want to see some merchant complaining six months after they didn't have any BTC payment and I think it's good backlash, so, but at one point we decided to invert our positions drastically, of course, because of the conference mainly, right?

Because when we did decide to do the conference and in such big numbers, we, I suddenly realized, oh, shit, we need to start with the merchants right now, because the community is growing. Um. You know, and, we'll have 5000 hopefully 5000 Bitcoiners all around Funchal for a week. we need to start right now.

And, our first official hire for FREE Madeira was Charlie, that has actually a very interesting story [00:34:00] of his own. Charlie escaped Venezuela with his mother, with Bitcoin in his head. It's an Amazing story, and he's very, very happy to be the first, he still tells me every day, very happy to be the first hire of Bitcoin and he couldn't be happier doing what he's doing, which is now, as I call him, the open merchant, the rabbit. the Bitcoin merchant rabbit, and he goes all over Madeira, onboarding new merchants. And I am completely, utterly surprised by the reception we've been having from, the merchants. It's, we didn't have any refusal so far. Everybody's accepting. everybody's curious, 80 of them are keeping the sats because we give them the option of, keeping the sats or exchangings for euros.

Uh, they're keeping the sats. non custodially, and you know, everything's working very, very well. It's crazy. [00:35:00] And now that we have the community growing by, by the, every day, every day at Cork, people arrive with their coffees or with their lunches, with their, you know, they go to the pharmacy, they, they, they pay in sats.

It's, it's growing exponentially. You can go to BTCmaps and check for yourself. It's like we're in the bull market of merchant adoption in Funchal and it's fucking great to see.

Knut: Fantastic news. I can't wait. It's gonna be great. I can just feel it, like, what could possibly go wrong? Famous last words, I know, but

Andre: Many things can go wrong.

Knut: Yeah,

Andre: Actually our goal is to minimize the most of the things that can go wrong.

Knut: collateral damage. Yeah.

Luke: Alright, you might have noticed that we've recently partnered with AmberApp. After our episode with Izzy, their CEO, and our close friend, we knew we would have to partner with them in some [00:36:00] way, If you haven't seen our episode with Izzy, definitely go check it out, you'll see why it's such a great fit, and honestly, they're following the orange glowing light like Izzy always says, and that's exactly what we try to do here at the Freedom Footprint Show.

The big news about AmberApp is that on Jan 3, 2024, they're going to be launching their version 2. I've seen some of the screenshots and it looks fantastic. They're going to be including a non custodial on chain wallet, an anonymous lightning wallet, a fiat wallet, And finally, it's going to be an exchange, of course. it's going to be just this super app, They're also going to be launching globally.

Everyone's going to be able to use it. we're really excited about all that. Stay tuned with us and you'll hear all about it. And for now, check out their website, amber. app and the episode with Izzy to find out more.

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Andre's Daily Routine

Knut: how does a normal day look for Andre Loja? Like, uh, what is your daily routine? Like, yeah, I'm just curious. there's a bunch of meetings, I guess.

Andre: Well, it changed a lot for the last few months, that's for sure. but yeah, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a family man, so I have four kids, four small kids, so it kind of starts the same way every day. Waking up three kids to go to primary school in the morning and, you know, [00:38:00] just running around trying to be sane until I drop them at school.

Um, and then the whole craziness of the day starts and, you know, all my other business, they didn't stop. So I still have a bunch to do, um, on the other side. Uh, but I've been mostly, you know, I've been mostly busy with the conference, of course. So I think for the last few months I've been using and abusing Zoom calls a lot.

And just, you know, venue sightings and, you know, partners and conversations and emails, a lot of emails and, and signal messages and telegram messages and Twitter messages. It's been kind of crazy. Uh, but I don't think I can, I can give you like a regular day, except that I always go home and pick up the kids again for the last part of the day.

Knut: Yeah, yeah. So kid in, three kids in one [00:39:00] hand and the telephone in the other, right?

Andre: Well, it's four. But then usually also have like tennis lessons, ballet lessons. So I'm driving around a lot as well.

Knut: Yeah. mean, tell me about it. I have, I have two kids and I know how, how tough that is.

Andre: It's all good. I, you know, I, they're amazing. Um, when I don't want to throw them out the window, they're amazing. So, uh,

Knut: And that's a good way of, uh, you know, boiling it down, I guess the, the, the moments where you don't want to throw them out of the window. They're lovely.

Fiat Regulations - Window Story

Knut: Uh, yeah. By the way, you told me a fantastic story in Amsterdam that I, talked to, Dominic Frisby about, uh, here, uh, about a week ago and, uh, like, let, let's hear the original story here about the permit for installing a window instead of permit for. Removing a window. I love that story so much.

Andre: funny story. That was my, Father in law. Um That was his [00:40:00] story, apparently a true story when he was working at the Municipal, Municipality of Lisbon. So, it was just making fun of fiat bullshit, right, and bureaucracy, right? the permits and the red tape and the licensing, that sometimes is on, the municipalities for constructors, it's so stupid some of the times.

That a guy in Lisbon was very smart, so he had this, building, and one of the facades didn't have a window. and the guy really wanted to do a window there. So, but he thought, you know, if I go through you know, the whole legal process, this is gonna be a pain in the ass and, you know, they're probably just gonna refuse.

So, he sent a permit, request as well. But to remove a window, so

Knut: Yeah. I love this.

Andre: I want to remove the window out of his facade and he got clearance. Well, not clearance. He got a refusal saying,

not

to

remove the window and [00:41:00] it was okay. And I think it was perfect. It's brilliant. And it's, actually, so true because you go, uh, you know, and as a business man from the last 15 years of my life.

You go through so much bullshit and red tape and just really on the bottom of it just stupid stuff, really. That they don't even have the ability to control or verify or what not. And they just block your way, so I, totally approve this kind of creativity to, go around it. So it's a perfect example on how to navigate fiat life without getting crazy.

Knut: Yeah, remember to send in your application to pay your taxes and get it rejected.[00:42:00]

Madeira's Unique Position as a Semi-Autonomous Region

Knut: Anyway, like how, how does Madeira differ from mainland Portugal there? Because Madeira is a semi autonomous region, right? So, so what kinds of benefits do that give to Madeira? Like, uh, I know like all islands, there's more of a like communal feeling and Family feeling like you, you don't really have to, to worry about too much of the bullshit.

Andre: Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that statement a lot. There's, there's this. I don't know, overwhelming feeling that you're almost, um, that you're different from the mainland Portugal somehow, just because you are separated physically, I guess. there's also this, this very special Islander feeling. Uh, I was actually discussing this with the, with someone on my 1000 Zoom calls that I had for the last two months, um, about this feeling of the ocean and being [00:43:00] surrounded by the ocean.

And, oh yeah, we were discussing how, and this really happens, how an Islander can feel claustrophobic in, in a place where he doesn't see the sea around them for a long time. Um, this really happens. so overall there's, there's a, there's a feeling of, uh, being, being connected to all, all of the other islanders that share this little piece of land in the middle of the Atlantic.

but besides that, um, that feeling, um, there's also the, the legal stuff, I guess. So we are a semi-autonomous region. We have our own government, we have our own parliament. Uh, but, but you know, the semi part is very important. So we are not fully independent. we still have to abide, um, by the general main rules, especially on the most important stuff like taxes and defense and, you know, stuff like that.

[00:44:00] And there's some, for example, on the taxes, there's some percentage of difference that you can apply, and there's certain rules that someone decided by because it was windy day of the north that it should be, you know, 30 percent because it made sense, right? Because they know everything. so they created this whole legal structure with the mainland that we have to abide.

But we do have a lot more flexibility, so we can, uh, on a lot of the areas we can pursue our own ideas, I guess, or at least the ideas of the government. Um, because it's a democracy, so the people represented in the government, right? So, it's our own ideas, right? So, at least the mainstream media told me so.

And, um, and yeah, but we, we do have, We do have a lot more flexibility and I cannot complain. Uh, I think there's a feeling here of [00:45:00] more sovereignty than in the mainland. more, I think people at least think they're more capable of designing their own destiny, I guess, in a way. And, um, and I cannot complain overall as, as you well know, uh, but that is a great place to live.

With all, even with all the fiat bullshit that, that you see everywhere, right, especially within the EU, that you cannot escape it. Um, overall, we cannot complain at all. Quality of life here is amazing. We do have, very good infrastructure as the group saw it very well in June last year. Um, we had some Canadian large guys very impressed with the tunnels and the, and the roads, you know, builds the roads.

Apparently, apparently EU gives us free money to build roads, you know, that's amazing. [00:46:00] Um, so we did it and they all, they, they, they definitely use that money to build a lot of stuff. Um, but yeah, life is good overall here.

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Beyond Democracy

Knut: by the way, speaking of democracy, I read that book that you recommended to me in Amsterdam, Beyond Democracy. Really good one.

Andre: We just translated it to Portuguese. We're going to launch it soon.

Knut: Yeah, uh, so, to me it was sort of a condensed and more accessible version of Hoppe's Democracy, The God That Failed.

Andre: You, you've already requested many times to read that book. I still didn't. Uh, I have a backlash of, I don't know, 70 books to read.

Knut: yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't really need to read that one after having read this one, I guess.

Andre: Yeah, but that one's really small and really concise. And to the point, I really liked it. Um, so I,

Knut: Democracy, yeah. So, yeah, definitely a book recommendation.

Andre: yeah, I contacted the authors and they were really, really nice. And they agreed that I did the translation and I actually, I'm, I'm about to send them invites to come to the conference. I hope they accept.

Knut: Can you give me their contact details, or give us [00:49:00] their contact details so we can have them on here?

Andre: Yeah, of course I will. And they were amazing. The book is amazing. I don't think it's a very concise way of explaining how, why democracy is not going to work. It doesn't work and it's not going to work in the future. So

Knut: Now, uh, one funny takeaway from the book is that there's nothing about democracy in the American Constitution. Like, uh, everyone thinks there is, and like, we need to fight for democracy and stuff, but there's nothing about it in the Constitution.

Anyway, that's the book recommendation.

Luke: so, um Have you heard from Cristiano? No,

Andre: No, actually, two days ago I heard, uh, mainstream news about the guy that he was being sued in the United States for promoting NFT bullshit for Binance, so you lay your own bed, I hope you learn, and maybe we have a VIP ticket for you, Ronald, if you want to come to the conference.

Knut: Well, no shitcoiners.

Andre: No, no.

no.

Luke: no, no, Knut, [00:50:00] Knut, he's gotta come and then, yeah.

Andre: the goal of the conference to attract local shitcoiners and nocoiners and precoiners to learn, so it's part of the process.

So come and learn. We won't discuss shitcoins for sure, but if you're a shitcoiner, please come. You'll be very welcome.

Knut: Yeah. Okay, then.

Luke: No shit coiners, speakers, you know, that's the, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the, that's the clarification, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally,

totally.

Andre: to learn. I was a shitcoiner myself, Knut.

Knut: Yes, you're forgiven. Yeah.

Andre: I know,

Knut: This is all atonement for that, right? That's why you're doing this whole thing.

Andre: it's my, it's my path of misery

Knut: yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I didn't mean it. Yeah.

Andre: but instead of the Santiago path on my knees, I decided to do this huge conference in the middle of the Atlantic to forgive myself.

Knut: I, I think this is a sort of a good point to wrap it up. Luke, what do you say, like, uh.

Luke: been, this has been [00:51:00] awesome, Andre. Awesome always to hear about, uh, what's going on over at Madeira. Can't wait to finally get on Madeira myself. I've never been. I'm, I'm looking forward to this. I can't wait. And, uh, yeah, sounds like it's going to be awesome. So anything else you'd like to, uh, mention or direct people to or anything like that?

Wrapping Up

Andre: Well, do follow us on, on, on the handles, uh, Bitcoin Atlantis and Free Madeira. org on Twitter. Uh, we're also in, in a few other places, but, you know, and also the, the, the main web pages, freemadar. com and bitcoinatlantis. com, subscribe to the newsletter. I think that's the, the, one of the ways to keep updated on the information and all the news we're launching for the conference and also for Freemadar, but especially for the conference right now, uh, because we send an occasional newsletter with all, with everything that's been announced, uh, on the previous weeks.

Uh, and yeah, do come. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be an [00:52:00] amazing week in Madeira. Madeira is already a great place to spend some vacations. Um, bring your wife, bring your kids. We have a kids area inside the venue. We're making it family friendly. There will even be women's events as well, and other parties, and a lot of cool stuff for you to join.

Or not, or just go on and, you know, just rent a car and go drive around the island, sightseeing, uh, you know, skinny dipping or sunballing or whatever you want to do around Lodera and enjoy the week. Uh, it's going to be great.

Knut: Fantastic. Yeah, and you can use code KNUT for 10 percent off, I think, your ticket. Do we have the freedom code?

Andre: I don't remember the name

Knut: I don't remember.

Luke: Kate. It's fine. It's fine. It's

Knut: Yeah, yeah. For 10 percent off your ticket and go to an island apart for, uh, if you still have any apartments available for the conference, I don't know if you

do.

Andre: Well, in the, in the, at the Bitcoin Atlantis website, um, there's [00:53:00] a plan your events, um, page where you can see all the partners, not only the vacation rentals, but also the hotels and renter cars and activities and so on. So go there for a discount codes on those partners as well. And, um, and when you purchase a ticket, you're all, you'll always be redirected to that page.

So there's many options from, you know, five star hotels to just more affordable options. There's, there's something for everyone.

Knut: Yeah, and, uh, on the Free Madeira webpage, you can also find a little documentary we made last year about how we started this whole organization. so that's a, that's, that's a fun little move.

Andre: Another, uh, uh, video recording session during Atlantis.

Knut: Yeah, we're looking forward so much to all of this, Andre, and we'll, we'll, uh, figure out how to move ahead with this thing. I, I'm looking, personally looking forward to getting more involved with the organization again. Like, [00:54:00] uh, we had more regular meetings and stuff in the beginning, and I think we can start like working on this thing and I can be on the island a bit more often, uh, to get things moving again.

Uh. Uh, I've been traveling a lot the last year, so, so, um, I haven't really had the time to be on Madeira too much, but I'm looking forward to coming back for sure and, and, uh, see this thing through. Well, anyway, great chat. See you in a couple of months and, uh, yeah, probably see you online before that.

So, uh, uh, good luck with everything and, uh, fantastic work.

Andre: Thank you guys for having me again.

Luke: Yeah, thanks Andre, and uh, Knut has forgotten our new sign off phrase, so have a great rest of your life Andre, that's how we're

Knut: Yeah, have a great rest of their life. Like, yeah. That's the friend friendliest thing we can think of. And don't forget to like, subscribe and brush your damn teeth.

Luke: This has been the Freedom Footprint

Knut: children.

Luke: thanks for listening, yes goodbye children, and bye Andre, thanks again.[00:55:00]